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Author Topic: Having a Skater Go Around  (Read 7696 times)

Offline The Sharmanator

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Having a Skater Go Around
« on: May 18, 2015, 10:33:37 pm »
Scenario:

Purple skater A knocks Pink skater B OOB with an Illegal Forearm while in turn 1 past the point of no return.  Purple A is immediately called for the Forearm, but does not hear the penalty and starts pin balling clockwise off of their own and opponent skaters trying to draw a cut and finally lands in a down position just about in front of the Penalty Box. Ref issues the penalty again and the skater skates directly to the box.  Should the referee send the skater around?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 01:56:58 am by The Sharmanator »

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 11:33:20 pm »
I assess skating around based on the location of the penalty. I extend the no return line to the track, and if the penalty was committed passed that (Fully with both feet), then I send them around. I'm not sure how other people are handling this, but this is what I have been doing.
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Offline Mav'Ricky

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2015, 12:59:46 am »
I've been doing the same as Vanilla Vice but I just re-read the rule and it mentions their position only after they are penalised. Some skaters may argue they had a legal right to be on the track right up until the moment they were penalised so shouldn't have to skate around.

That's a dilemma.
Be fair. Be clear.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2015, 03:55:48 am »
I've been doing the same as Vanilla Vice but I just re-read the rule and it mentions their position only after they are penalised. Some skaters may argue they had a legal right to be on the track right up until the moment they were penalised so shouldn't have to skate around.

That's a dilemma.

The position is determined when the penalty is issued. I'm not sure I understand the dilemma.
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Offline Mav'Ricky

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2015, 04:29:50 am »
Thanks for clearing that up Wood. I think I misspoke when I said dilemma.
Be fair. Be clear.

Offline Divide by Zero

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2015, 07:26:45 am »
The rule says they need to skate around if they are past the point of no return at any point after being sent to the box.
[rule]6.2.2.1.1 - If, after being sent to the Penalty Box, all parts of a penalized Skater have passed beyond Point of No Return (see Section 10 - Glossary), the Skater must skate all the way around the track in order to enter the box from the appropriate counter-clockwise direction.[/rule]

There is another rule which says they are considered to have been sent to the box as soon as the illegal action is committed.
[rule]6.1.1.1 - A penalty is considered to be assessed, and a Skater is considered to have been sent to the Penalty Box, once the action that warrants a penalty has been committed.[/rule]

So if they are beyond the point of no return at any point after committing the penalty (regardless of when it was actually called) they need to skate around.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2015, 01:23:10 pm »
This is actually quite difficult for penalty box managers to assess, since they aren't usually looking directly at the penalized skater at the moment the penalty is called.  As a ref, if I know I called a penalty just past the point of no return and I see the skater go directly to the box, I'll try to communicate the "skate around" to the PBM if I have time.
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Offline bjmacke

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 03:56:20 pm »
This is actually quite difficult for penalty box managers to assess, since they aren't usually looking directly at the penalized skater at the moment the penalty is called. 

The guidance from the last time this came up was to key off the whistle. A PBM should be aware of the skaters as they are in the vicinity of the box and, when a ref whistles a penalty, pay attention to the skaters backtracking across the PONR. If one of those backtracking skaters ends up being the penalized skater, you use the whistle blast as the indication of where the penalty occurred and the justification for sending them around.
also known as Apron, if you didn't know already.

Offline SilkenTofu

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2015, 04:10:22 pm »
The guidance from the last time this came up[...]

Just a note: there is no official consensus on this.  There are two schools of thought, and right now neither of those schools is "wrong."  Some of us are working on that, because we heart consistency.  :D
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Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2015, 04:32:02 pm »

Just a note: there is no official consensus on this.  There are two schools of thought, and right now neither of those schools is "wrong."  Some of us are working on that, because we heart consistency.  :D

I find the rules Divide By Zero quotes above to explicitly answer this question. What is the argument from the opposing school of thought?

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 08:44:35 pm »

Just a note: there is no official consensus on this.  There are two schools of thought, and right now neither of those schools is "wrong."  Some of us are working on that, because we heart consistency.  :D

I find the rules Divide By Zero quotes above to explicitly answer this question. What is the argument from the opposing school of thought?

I don't think there's any dispute as to the rules themselves.  It's a question of how best to approach enforcing them. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rule used to be that if the skater left the track after the point of no return, she had to skate around.  That was relatively easy.

If the rule said that if the whistle is blown after the skater had passed the point of no return, that would be harder, but box managers can hear whistles.

But it's even more challenging, because the rule says that if the skater has committed the action then she is considered to be on her way to the box regardless of when the whistle is blown.

Penalty box managers aren't referees.  They aren't supposed to watch for the penalties themselves.  So this makes things a bit more challenging, and as Tofu says - there isn't yet a consensus on how to handle this. Especially if I'm a jam ref, and therefore have nothing more important to do once my jammer is sent off, I'll try to help the PBM out with skate around calls.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2015, 09:13:11 pm »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rule used to be that if the skater left the track after the point of no return, she had to skate around.  That was relatively easy.

Correcting you. It wasn't particularly clear. Practice was basically the same disagreement that is happening here. Something that skaters tried to do was hear the penalty, skate clockwise behind the PONR to avoid having to skate around. Most referees I know of would have still made her skate around, even though she exited the track behind the PONR.
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Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2015, 02:00:39 pm »
Correcting you. It wasn't particularly clear. Practice was basically the same disagreement that is happening here. Something that skaters tried to do was hear the penalty, skate clockwise behind the PONR to avoid having to skate around. Most referees I know of would have still made her skate around, even though she exited the track behind the PONR.

Duly noted, thanks.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: Having a Skater Go Around
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2015, 03:34:41 am »

 

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