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Author Topic: Independent Ref Group (WMD)  (Read 4987 times)

Offline MidKnight Justice

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Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« on: December 02, 2015, 09:11:12 am »
There is a group of Official's that are looking at becoming independent in the 2016. We are planing to make ourselves available to the leagues in our area for scrimmages and games but not be affiliated with just one league. We are working on the set up and by laws now. Has anyone else have experience doing this? I'm looking to get idea's for the best way to do this and make sure it is a solid structure. IF anyone happens to know of a template to go from or a league that has a really good foundation for there officiating crew I would love some advice and info. We will be looking at working with leagues from 4 different states (PA,MD,WV,VA,)and DC area. We want to be able to cover about a 2hr radius from Hargerstown MD (as of now) and keep it open to even start up and apprenticeship leagues who may have the need for Ref's and NSO's. Depending on how many Ref's and NSO's we have in the group and the area's they are able to cover will depend on what leagues we will be able to help out. Anyone who can lend a hand in this I fully appreciate the advice, idea's, corrective criticism, and support! ;-)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 11:57:58 pm by MidKnight Justice »

Offline PotomacRipper

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 01:06:44 pm »
Oh boy, this again

Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 09:10:52 pm »
I think having a group like this is great.  My only question is why do you feel it necessary for the officials in this group to be unaffiliated?  I would think having affiliated "and certified" officials would be a positive factor.

Offline MidKnight Justice

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 10:16:27 pm »
We are considering both ends of that. If we are not affiliated with a league we do lose that status which is a con for sure. The Affiliated league we are with now is trying to make us more "part of the team" in a way we feel maybe crossing a line in our books. We are still tossing around ideas and hopeful we will come to an answer that will help both us and the leagues that want to work with us. We want to help and work with leagues just not for the league.

Offline MidKnight Justice

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 10:29:51 pm »
Also with talking to another member of the group who is doing most of the write up on how this group will work, we will also have Ref's and NSO's that are affiliated with other leagues. We may try to keep affiliation with the team we are with now, if they agree to working with us and not having us "work for them". We are still in the drafting process and needed to run it by the BOD of the current league we are with. So we shall see how it all turns out, hopefully positive for everyone. Current structure the league has for there Officiating staff has more holes in it then Swiss cheese Also it has not been revised since they where an apprenticeship league (many moons ago). We are working to fix that. We lost our Head Ref and this is how the talk started, to change some things and look at what we are working with. While doing that the BOD thought it best for them to run the crew because none of the current Officials want the Head Ref spot. We want to do it as a group not just one person being head.


I think having a group like this is great.  My only question is why do you feel it necessary for the officials in this group to be unaffiliated?  I would think having affiliated "and certified" officials would be a positive factor.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 10:44:42 pm »
My first thought is - where do new refs come from under this system?  Do they learn with existing leagues, and then unaffiliate as soon as they know how to skate?  Seems kind of ungrateful.  Does the group rent its own space and run its own separate 101 class to teach skating skills to new officials?

For that matter, how do unaffiliated refs improve their skating skills in general?  I have no idea - I know if I couldn't do skating drills with my league, I wouldn't have regular access to practice space.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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Offline MidKnight Justice

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 11:03:14 pm »
Since I started (about a year ago) we did not have anyone really running our Ref Crew, our head Ref was dual affiliated and didn't have much time to travel to help. So I skated as Fresh Meat then paid to go to a closer rink to speed skate and have worked with multiple leagues and Ref's that have helped and are still helping to teach me. I appreciate all who have helped me and still help me. I actually am working now to train up a new Ref coming out of the fresh meat program and hope to keep working with that league and many more to help train and learn. I have actually work with more outside leagues and there Ref's because our league just didn't have the means at the time to do much of my training. Now that I'm Refing games, they are taking more time to help but up until a few mths ago it's been on the individual Ref to take on there own training. Hoping we can work out something a better for the ones that come after me.

My first thought is - where do new refs come from under this system?  Do they learn with existing leagues, and then unaffiliate as soon as they know how to skate?  Seems kind of ungrateful.  Does the group rent its own space and run its own separate 101 class to teach skating skills to new officials?

For that matter, how do unaffiliated refs improve their skating skills in general?  I have no idea - I know if I couldn't do skating drills with my league, I wouldn't have regular access to practice space.

Offline MidKnight Justice

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Re: Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 12:05:57 am »
We have a Draft WMD (Derby Officiating Charter) as of today! It looks great but we will be having a few other potential members read over before a final copy is made to the general Officiating Public. IF you would like to look it over and see what it entails please let me know and I will make sure a copy is sent your way. This is mostly meant for the Ref's and Leagues we normally work with but if anyone thinks it may help them we are more then willing to share what we have come up with. This is for Ref's, NSO's, Independent or Affiliated, new and/or certified.

Offline llama of death

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 01:31:51 am »
My first thought is - where do new refs come from under this system?  Do they learn with existing leagues, and then unaffiliate as soon as they know how to skate?  Seems kind of ungrateful.  Does the group rent its own space and run its own separate 101 class to teach skating skills to new officials?

For that matter, how do unaffiliated refs improve their skating skills in general?  I have no idea - I know if I couldn't do skating drills with my league, I wouldn't have regular access to practice space.

I can only speak to this area where affiliation is very loose. There is no expectations of reffing for any given league the leagues simply let us know what practices are "open to refs" and we either come or don't dependent on our own schedule. This is a game of trust and not one I play anymore as I chose to accept the offer of a local adult league and a Juniors league to be their crew HR (they never overlap schedules without making it a doubleheader so no big deal there).

We did/do (as I am still leading the local FB training group) attend 'a' practice once a week, I have "office hours" during one of each leagues practices for training affiliated/non-affiliated/visiting/all refs who choose to attend. it is very informal and low pressure. The skaters in this area have never been the ones who train us in the rules. That concept has always been a weird one to me.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Independent/Unaffilatied Ref Group
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 11:42:46 am »
For that matter, how do unaffiliated refs improve their skating skills in general?  I have no idea - I know if I couldn't do skating drills with my league, I wouldn't have regular access to practice space.
The skaters in this area have never been the ones who train us in the rules. That concept has always been a weird one to me.

To be clear - I don't think anyone learns the *reffing* part of reffing except from other refs.  But it takes a *while* to learn to skate from scratch, and as I far as I know, that is nearly universally learned along with potential players for a particular league.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
Rules Colored Glasses - Useful Officiating Stuff

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 03:06:06 pm »
For me organizing would really only benefit if you were trying to be a labor union where you were trying to make travel stipends to officials the rule instead of the exception.

Other sports don't rely on officials needing practice space to keep skating skills sharp because it doesn't involving skating. For this reason I think it is easier for those sports to organize officials. As long as officials need a space to learn to skate, and maintain their skating skills, it will be tough to organize. Because the thing you need is always the thing that leagues have; Practice Space.

Now if your group had its own practice space, then it 'might' be doable.
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline Wernher

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Re: Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 04:30:37 pm »
For me organizing would really only benefit if you were trying to be a labor union where you were trying to make travel stipends to officials the rule instead of the exception.

Other sports don't rely on officials needing practice space to keep skating skills sharp because it doesn't involving skating. For this reason I think it is easier for those sports to organize officials. As long as officials need a space to learn to skate, and maintain their skating skills, it will be tough to organize. Because the thing you need is always the thing that leagues have; Practice Space.

Now if your group had its own practice space, then it 'might' be doable.

Speaking for myself, in an area where there's a rather popular sport that involves ice skating; there's no regular practice for refs because (1) skating is something you're expected to know before you get there; and if you're from here, you've done it all your life. (2) There are so many games available that is your practice.

Since the number of rink rats are fairly low, that necessitates the practice space, as you said. But also because this is still a new sport, with lots of green officials and players.

One of the things I like about derby is the interaction that officials have with skaters; because when you're affiliated with a league, you're seen as a human being rather than "the other" - I've also noticed (in my league and others) that the skaters know the rules better than most players and coaches of other leagues. Partially that's because the skaters own the rules, in the form of the WFTDA/MRDA, but also because they're exposed on a regular basis to officials, who they hopefully respect, who can explain why call "X" happened.

I'm a fan of league affiliation; I realize it's not for every situation. But being affiliated doesn't (or shouldn't) stop officials from traveling to other leagues to help out.
Wernher Von Bombed
Assistant Head Ref
Minnesota RollerGirls

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 04:55:55 pm »
I agree with those things. I'm slightly jealous of that 'other popular sport'.  :)
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline llama of death

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Re: Independent Ref Group (WMD)
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 06:29:13 pm »
What's funny is as a ref who started as affiliated then not then was again. The conversation seems to equate "organizing" as confrontational by nature. As though by organizing we will not be allowed to skate durring the leagues pracrices. It couldn't be further from the truth. By doing so we where welcome at more practices, not less. Had more exposure to more skaters and less imaginary walls.

The skaters have a group to go to with concerns, they have a group which self governs and is capable of self training and all they ask for is the same access as a group as the affiliated refs got.

In the end the reason I am affilted now has less to do with problems (which there where none btw) and instead that it simplified my schedule. It meant that I was allways reffing at least one team and could fill in else where as needed.

The last point is that in our area we have 12+ leagues and less refs. Average travel distance to a bout is 120miles one way. Having a central unaffiliated organization allowed us to have a unified voice to effect change to make double and triple headers more comon than having three seperatly organized bouts where we had to short staff ALL the events. My area is reversing this as we are having a growth spurt with atleast a new rosterable ref every year.

Organisation is not bad, just be carful to be fair and use it as a tool to improve the game and effect positive change, never negative actions (punitive etc).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 06:30:53 pm by llama of death »
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

 

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