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Author Topic: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...  (Read 4854 times)

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« on: January 19, 2016, 04:47:25 pm »
Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and the Opposing Team does not have an alternate set.

The challenging team has a second set they would like to allow the opposing team use.

After looking at the opposing team's helmet covers, you as the HR think they aren't high contrasting colors.

Opposing Team would rather use the helmet covers they brought.

Would you enforce the opposing team wear the challenging team's alternate set of covers as a solution to this?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 04:53:49 pm by Vanilla VICE »
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Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 04:57:41 pm »
I would say the Opposing Team doesn't really get a vote since they failed to comply with 2.6.1:
[rule]2.6.1 - Teams must have two sets of different helmet covers available during the game.[/rule]

Without knowing the degree of contrast of the two sets of covers, I'd probably go with allowing the Opposing Team to use the opponent's alternate covers. This is a courtesy extended from the other team to allow the game to continue, and since the rules don't really give refs authority to challenge contrast on covers, it's the most reasonable solution that fits closest to the rules' parameters.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

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Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 09:06:38 pm »
I would say the Opposing Team doesn't really get a vote since they failed to comply with 2.6.1:
[rule]2.6.1 - Teams must have two sets of different helmet covers available during the game.[/rule]

Without knowing the degree of contrast of the two sets of covers, I'd probably go with allowing the Opposing Team to use the opponent's alternate covers. This is a courtesy extended from the other team to allow the game to continue, and since the rules don't really give refs authority to challenge contrast on covers, it's the most reasonable solution that fits closest to the rules' parameters.

I believe the rules do give us authority.

[rule]2.3.2.2 - The Jammer’s helmet cover must have two stars that are a minimum of 4 inches (10 cm) across, from point to point. Helmet cover base color and stars must be of high contrast and easily identifiable.[/rule]




« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 09:08:26 pm by The Sharmanator »

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 09:19:05 pm »
This was more of a 'make the call'.

I think we all agree the authority is there.

What would you do Sharm?
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Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 11:48:16 pm »
This was more of a 'make the call'.

I think we all agree the authority is there.

What would you do Sharm?

Ice

I would suggest they take the offer from the opposing team to use their covers.  I'm saying this because your OP says the HR agrees they are not high contrast not necessarily because the opposing team says they are not.  If they didn't accept the other teams offer of using their covers I don't think I as HR could let them participate therefore forfeiting the game.   
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 07:52:29 pm by The Sharmanator »

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 05:29:25 am »
I would suggest they take the offer from the opposing team to use their covers.  I'm saying this because your OP says the HR agrees they are not high contrast not necessarily because the opposing team says they are not.  If they didn't accept the other teams offer of using their covers I don't think I as HR could let them participate therefore forfeiting the game.

There is another option -- the rule can be waived by common agreement of the HR and both captains at which point the ensuing game becomes non-regulation.  I've seen this happen before at regulation games when a skater shows up with an illegal number on her jersey and the teams don't want to make the skater sit to maintain the regulation status.  This can be useful when there's a paying audience who wouldn't take well to a forfeit that results in the visiting team storming out in disgust that the home team wouldn't loan them an extra set of covers.

If the original game was sanctioned they may opt to replay the game at another time when appropriate helmet covers are available.  I am unsure what WFTDA (or MRDA) sanctioning rules say about such postponements, but as far as I'm concerned that's a matter for them to take up, not me as HR.  With the aide of the NSOs I would simply make it clear on the sanctioning paperwork why a sanctioned game did not take place and that the decision to play a non-regulation game instead was made by mutual agreement of both teams.  It's then for the teams to take up with WFTDA sanctioning to determine whether such a postponement constitutes a forfeit or not.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 03:34:00 pm »
I would say the Opposing Team doesn't really get a vote since they failed to comply with 2.6.1:
[rule]2.6.1 - Teams must have two sets of different helmet covers available during the game.[/rule]

Without knowing the degree of contrast of the two sets of covers, I'd probably go with allowing the Opposing Team to use the opponent's alternate covers. This is a courtesy extended from the other team to allow the game to continue, and since the rules don't really give refs authority to challenge contrast on covers, it's the most reasonable solution that fits closest to the rules' parameters.

I believe the rules do give us authority.

[rule]2.3.2.2 - The Jammer’s helmet cover must have two stars that are a minimum of 4 inches (10 cm) across, from point to point. Helmet cover base color and stars must be of high contrast and easily identifiable.[/rule]

Perhaps "authority" wasn't the best word choice. What I'm getting at is that the rules give a prescribed course of action for helmet covers, and we shouldn't go beyond that unless it's just not there, and then we should try to stick as close as we can to the wording and intent.

I also just realized I totally misread the OP and thought that the HR thought the offered alternate covers weren't high contract, but now if I'm reading right, the alternate covers are high contrast. So my initial reply is off base.

So, the Opposing Team violated the rules by not having an alternate cover, the Challenging Team offered them an out. The HR has declared the Opposing Team's covers as not in compliance and the challenge was done IAW the rules.

There is another option instead of a forfeit or non-regulation game. The rules don't actually say a league HAS to wear helmet covers. You could let the Opposing Team know they will not be allowed to wear their helmet covers, but they can choose to wear the offered Challenging Team's covers. If not, then they can play without any helmet covers, meaning there will never be a Pivot and the Jammer will always be inactive. Then it becomes their choice whether they want to score any points in that game.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 04:06:18 pm »
If I had determined their one set of helmet covers to not be high contrast enough, then they aren't high contrast enough for any kind of game. I can't see changing the classification changing that. That rule is there so that there is no confusion over which position a skater is skating in, both for the audience and the officials. It's not one that can be thrown out for a non-regulation game.

There are other issues at play here. Was this game advertised as sanctioned/regulation? If so, do you need to worry about fans being angry about not getting exactly what they paid for? Also, that would eliminate the possibility for officials getting evaluations for that type of game. That is something else that should be considered before deciding to suddenly make a game non-regulation.
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Offline Wernher

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 08:40:43 pm »
I've had this happen in games I've been involved with more than once. You can point out to the one team that their in violation of rules, which may come into play with sanctioning (for WFTDA or MRDA), and with the contract between them and the host league. If they still don't want beg, borrow, or steal additional covers, then the other team has two choices: play the game or not; file a grievance or not (the later choice again, if MRDA or WFTDA).

I'm thankful I wasn't the HR in either of those cases.  :P
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Offline FNZebra

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 09:39:46 pm »
Not high contrast compared to what? The challenged team's base helmet color?

A possible solution that wouldn't adversely impact Sanctioning or Regulation... (Yeah, my personal view is it's a really, really bad idea for an HR to scratch that game status, unless it's for safety related reasons. Often, it can take months of effort to meet the requirements to make something Sanctioned. Plus, official's travel to work that event for possible evals... no bueno.)

Presuming each team's covers are contrasting enough against the opponents' color schemes, go all King Solomon here: ask the team's to swap their original helmet covers with each other.

This was done at D2 Kalamazoo, for the Carolina v Suburbia game (Wood was THR), where one team's "dark" uniform was red on black, while the other's "light" were black on red. Unfortunately, their helmet covers were exactly reversed, better matching their opponents' uniforms. During the warmups, the teams were asked to swap helmet covers, and the Sanctioned Playoff game continued.

I think that game may have led to changes regarding uniform requirements for WFTDA Sanctioning. :)

EDIT: swapped light & dark.doh.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 07:13:09 pm by FNZebra »
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Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Team Challenges Helmet Cover Contrast of Opposing Team and...
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 09:51:34 pm »

Quote
Not high contrast compared to what? The challenged team's base helmet color?

The stripe or star color isn't high contrast to the base of the helmet cover.
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