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Author Topic: What The...Starpass?  (Read 8503 times)

Offline llama of death

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What The...Starpass?
« on: February 08, 2016, 10:37:08 pm »
White jammer lines up infront of the Pivot line (foot hovering over the line), Jam starts and she passes the star backwards to the Pivot who was lined up right behind her touching the pivot line. New Jammer (was pivot) takes off.

My call:
Legal starpass, ne jammer is "behind" the pack on initial pass
Reason: starcover carries lap position and relevant passes with it.

Right or Wrong?

*No, I did not make this up, this is a play a local group was discussing as a viable way to "get lead"*
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 10:52:04 pm »
White jammer lines up infront of the Pivot line (foot hovering over the line), Jam starts and she passes the star backwards to the Pivot who was lined up right behind her touching the pivot line. New Jammer (was pivot) takes off.

My call:
Legal starpass, ne jammer is "behind" the pack on initial pass
Reason: starcover carries lap position and relevant passes with it.

Right or Wrong?

*No, I did not make this up, this is a play a local group was discussing as a viable way to "get lead"*


Legal star pass.  No penalty.  The jammer is all-but returned to the previous lap, and in doing so a star pass is not illegal.

However, the jammer was behind the engagement zone by almost an entire lap (if she wasn't already pulled back into it by virtue of starting the jam so far back from the engagement zone on her initial pass).  When the star pass takes place, the original and new jammers swap laps.  The new jammer is therefore down an entire lap behind the pack, and must skate an entire lap around and re-enter the engagement zone from the rear to begin her initial pass.

Once the new jammer skates counter-clockwise around the track and passes through the pack she will then enter her first scoring pass.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 11:43:04 pm »
It should also be pointed out that even if she makes it around and through the pack before the other Jammer, she still wouldn't earn Lead Jammer. Per rule 2.5: "A Pivot-turned-Jammer can score points, but cannot gain Lead Jammer status."
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Hans Oferbach

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2016, 07:06:11 am »
Wait, both skaters are legally positioned, so the pivot-now-jammer could skate forward, exit the EZ, and complete their initial (not lead due to star pass), and the jammer-now blocker would be given OOP warning and be required to accelerate til sprinting, and continue sprinting until they re-enter the EZ to avoid FTReturn.
What am I missing here?
Keep turnin left...

RawShark

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2016, 07:22:29 am »
Wait, both skaters are legally positioned, so the pivot-now-jammer could skate forward, exit the EZ, and complete their initial (not lead due to star pass), and the jammer-now blocker would be given OOP warning and be required to accelerate til sprinting, and continue sprinting until they re-enter the EZ to avoid FTReturn.
What am I missing here?

The Jammer and the Pivot effectively trade places. The Pivot was at the front of the pack when the pass occurred; after the pass the ex-Jammer is at the front of the pack also. They don't get teleported a lap behind the pack.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 09:48:35 am by RawShark »

Offline Hans Oferbach

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2016, 12:22:20 pm »
So the jammer-now-blocker is not required to skate around to join the pack, merely stay where they are and carry on?
Keep turnin left...

Offline Divide by Zero

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2016, 12:38:23 pm »
So the jammer-now-blocker is not required to skate around to join the pack, merely stay where they are and carry on?

Yes

Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2016, 10:43:16 pm »
So if the original jammer is actually lined up one lap back and you have to be in the pack while initiating a star pass, how is this a legal star pass when the jammer is actually one lap behind the pack?

RawShark

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2016, 11:27:47 pm »
So if the original jammer is actually lined up one lap back and you have to be in the pack while initiating a star pass, how is this a legal star pass when the jammer is actually one lap behind the pack?
The only requirements for a legal Star Pass is that the Jammer and Pivot are upright / in bounds / in the engagement zone. It's not relevant that the Jammer skated clockwise to get there.

Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2016, 03:47:00 pm »
So if the original jammer is actually lined up one lap back and you have to be in the pack while initiating a star pass, how is this a legal star pass when the jammer is actually one lap behind the pack?
The only requirements for a legal Star Pass is that the Jammer and Pivot are upright / in bounds / in the engagement zone. It's not relevant that the Jammer skated clockwise to get there.

That's my question, is the jammer in the engagement zone if they are one lap behind the pack?  That seems impossible to me.  Not arguing the point just trying to clarify the point if the jammer is one lap behind the pack or not and if so how can the Jammer be in the engagement zone?

Offline FNZebra

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2016, 04:48:33 pm »
You just answered your own q, Sharm.

The Jammer is never part of the pack, so what lap they are on regarding that of the pack isn't usually of interest. That doesn't mean the Jammer can't be in the EZ, though, even if they are up or down a lap compared to the pack.

We typically only pay attention to Jammer laps regarding lapping position & JLPs (and some cutting situations).
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
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Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Speedy Convalesce

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 05:37:05 pm »
If the jammer were not in the engagement zone when they are not in the same lap as the pack, no blocker would be allowed to engage them on a scoring pass. Obviously, this is neither the case nor desirable.

Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2016, 08:28:09 pm »
Yep, both comments make sense.  I guess I should of thought about it a little harder LOL! 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 08:32:45 pm by Invader Jim »

Offline Hans Oferbach

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2016, 03:23:04 am »
I have no problem with the legality of the pass. My biggest question is, once the pass has taken place and the pivot-now-jammer skates off with the star, is the initial pass complete when they exit the EZ?
Keep turnin left...

Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2016, 12:51:39 pm »
No. The initial pass is the jammers first pass THROUGH the pack, and starts with the jammer BEHIND the pack. See the glossary definitions for Initial Pass and Pass (noun).

 

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