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Author Topic: What The...Starpass?  (Read 8716 times)

Offline Speedy Convalesce

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2016, 12:52:08 pm »
once the pass has taken place and the pivot-now-jammer skates off with the star, is the initial pass complete when they exit the EZ?

No. Before the SP the (old) jammer was on the pre-initial pass*. After the SP the (new) jammer is on the same pass, i.e. the pre-initial pass. So when they exit the EZ (to the front) they are on the initial pass.

*If the jammer lined up at the jammer line and skated clockwise after the whistle, this would be very obvious. But even if the jammer lines up immediately in front of the pivot line and the pack lines up immediately behind the pivot line, the jammer is considered to be behind the pack:
[rule]3.2.1 - At the start of a jam all Skaters must be in position with the Blockers in front of the Jammers.[/rule]

Offline Hans Oferbach

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2016, 01:08:33 pm »
If this was not the jam start and was, say, a scoring lap, the jammer exits the EZ (completing the pass), and is pushed back into the EZ by the opposition jammer. The jammer then finds their pivot, behind them,  at the front of the pack. For whatever reason (not important) they pass the star legally, and the pivot-now-jammer skates forward and exits the engagement zone. Since the former jammer has already completed that pass, it can't be completed again, and therefore the pivot-now-jammer doesn't complete a pass until they come through the pack and exit the EZ, effectively exiting the EZ twice, but only really once because the former jammer had already completed the pass.
So at the jam start, should the pass happen at the front of the pack, it should be treated the same? Anyone have a wftda type answer here, rather than speculation and opinion?
Keep turnin left...

Offline Major Puddles

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2016, 11:04:39 pm »
2.1.2 and 3.2 both establish that the blockers are in front of the jammers in the lineup. Clearly that means that the Jammer is behind the blockers, even if they are just in front of the pivot line.

Then 2.5.5 states "The Pivot picks up where the previous Jammer left off". Which is behind the blockers. At least that's how I read the rules.

Roller Derby, where the magic of teleportation happens.

RawShark

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Re: What The...Starpass?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 01:38:42 am »
If this was not the jam start and was, say, a scoring lap, the jammer exits the EZ (completing the pass), and is pushed back into the EZ by the opposition jammer. The jammer then finds their pivot, behind them,  at the front of the pack. For whatever reason (not important) they pass the star legally, and the pivot-now-jammer skates forward and exits the engagement zone. Since the former jammer has already completed that pass, it can't be completed again, and therefore the pivot-now-jammer doesn't complete a pass until they come through the pack and exit the EZ, effectively exiting the EZ twice, but only really once because the former jammer had already completed the pass.

This isn't quite accurate.

- Jammer on scoring pass 2
- Jammer exits EZ at front, completes scoring pass 2, starts scoring pass 3 (7.1.3.5)
- Jammer forced back into EZ by opposing, returns to scoring pass 2 (7.1.5.1) but cannot score any more points in that pass because they already completed it (7.2.2.1)
- Star pass, new-Jammer is on scoring pass 2 (2.5.5)
- new-Jammer exits EZ at front again, returns to scoring pass 3

Anyone have a wftda type answer here, rather than speculation and opinion?

Rules Committee has posted a reply on the WFTDA forum that agrees with the previous discussion in this thread. Unfortunately, the way it's been posted is "We agree with the consensus" - so although we can state that this is the Rules-endorsed answer, we can't really post any previous discussion without breaking the NDA.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 01:45:34 am by RawShark »

 

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