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Author Topic: PONR  (Read 3955 times)

Offline The Sharmanator

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PONR
« on: March 05, 2016, 01:31:12 am »
Got a question about something I read on the WFTDA Boards.  I do not believe I am violating the WTDA NDA as they stated it was shareable.

States the following

[rule]The 2015 revision to 6.1.1.1, when paired with 6.2.2.1.1, created an unintended application of the Point of No Return. The 2015 revision to 6.1.1.1 was in respect to scoring points and not the Point of No Return. Therefore, 6.2.2.1.1 should now read as:

6.2.2.1.1 If, after receiving the appropriate hand signal and verbal cue, all parts of a penalized Skater have passed beyond the Point of No Return (see Glossary), the Skater must skate all the way around the track in order to enter the box from the appropriate counter-clockwise direction.[/rule]

So question is it doesn't matter where on the track the skater committed the penalty but only where they are when the penalty is legally and appropriately communicated to the skater?

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: PONR
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 09:10:02 am »
So question is it doesn't matter where on the track the skater committed the penalty but only where they are when the penalty is legally and appropriately communicated to the skater?

That is my understanding. 

Here's a scenario that demonstrates the change:

Black Jammer illegally uses her forearm to block White Blocker out of bounds just past the PONR.  Black Jammer skates clockwise past the PONR to draw a cut.  The "Forearms" penalty is then called on Black Jammer.

Old method:  Jammer referee should signal "Skate Around" to the penalty box manager.  PBM should then instruct Black Jammer to skate around the outside of the track before entering the box and seating herself.

New method:  Jammer may immediately enter the penalty box and seat herself.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline derby medic

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Re: PONR
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2016, 08:00:19 am »
So question is it doesn't matter where on the track the skater committed the penalty but only where they are when the penalty is legally and appropriately communicated to the skater?

That is my understanding. 

Here's a scenario that demonstrates the change:

Black Jammer illegally uses her forearm to block White Blocker out of bounds just past the PONR.  Black Jammer skates clockwise past the PONR to draw a cut.  The "Forearms" penalty is then called on Black Jammer.

Old method:  Jammer referee should signal "Skate Around" to the penalty box manager.  PBM should then instruct Black Jammer to skate around the outside of the track before entering the box and seating herself.

New method:  Jammer may immediately enter the penalty box and seat herself.

I think the above scenario is great as it uses normal gameplay as a reasoning for the jammer to arrive at the spot to be able to do this, but what if the jammer were to commit a penalty, and then skate clockwise on the track while the ref is calling said penalty just to be able to use this rule to their advantage. Is this not twisting the rules to your advantage a little?
I propose the preposterous to promote and propagate pragmatism.

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: PONR
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2016, 08:08:33 am »
... what if the jammer were to commit a penalty, and then skate clockwise on the track while the ref is calling said penalty just to be able to use this rule to their advantage. Is this not twisting the rules to your advantage a little?

Perhaps, but it's not much of an impact upon the game.  In the time it takes to blow a whistle and yell "Black Three Three Low Block", most skaters won't be able to move very far clockwise, especially if they have to stop and change directions to do so.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline The Sharmanator

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Re: PONR
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2016, 02:27:35 pm »
So question is it doesn't matter where on the track the skater committed the penalty but only where they are when the penalty is legally and appropriately communicated to the skater?

That is my understanding. 

Here's a scenario that demonstrates the change:

Black Jammer illegally uses her forearm to block White Blocker out of bounds just past the PONR.  Black Jammer skates clockwise past the PONR to draw a cut.  The "Forearms" penalty is then called on Black Jammer.

Old method:  Jammer referee should signal "Skate Around" to the penalty box manager.  PBM should then instruct Black Jammer to skate around the outside of the track before entering the box and seating herself.

New method:  Jammer may immediately enter the penalty box and seat herself.

I think the above scenario is great as it uses normal gameplay as a reasoning for the jammer to arrive at the spot to be able to do this, but what if the jammer were to commit a penalty, and then skate clockwise on the track while the ref is calling said penalty just to be able to use this rule to their advantage. Is this not twisting the rules to your advantage a little?

I think your scenario is the exact type this clarification is addressing.  If the skater gets back behind the PONR and then the call is made, then so be it, they don't go around.  However, I do want to point out the clarification says when called, not when heard or repeated which is where I've found most of the confusion stems from.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: PONR
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2016, 03:24:20 pm »
Part of the reason for this clarification is that the penalty box staff is expected to be able to issue "skate arounds" on their own without assistance from the referees, but we have no idea where the penalty was COMMITTED most of the time - we just know where it was ISSUED.  This sort of situation came up quite a bit with people committing clockwise blocks while skating back to draw cuts in front of the penalty box.

There was a lot of discussion in particular over a few game critical situations last year where skaters were made to skate around and it arguably affected the outcome of the game.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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