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Author Topic: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches  (Read 4159 times)

Offline llama of death

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Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« on: April 11, 2016, 04:40:53 pm »
So I had a no call the other day which the coach did not like (no real surprise there, my jammer was blocked from behind opposite my view and the OPRs where not looking at the block). So as per how I was trained I give no call and simply continue to watch my jammer. Ideally I would have seen the block coming an known the OPRs where otherwise busy with other actions and adjust to see the incoming contact.  But that is hindsight. Due to my ref face being pretty blank, i think the jammer was even more upset at me than usual for not calling what she felt was a back block.

Now, here is my question: Would it be uncalled for me to issue a verbal cue to the effect of "no call", at that time, in direct response to my jammer giving me the "are you really not going to call that eyes"?
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Divide by Zero

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 05:39:48 pm »
What information are you conveying with that verbal cue? I don't feel saying "No Call" is giving the jammer any information that you simply not calling the penalty would?

There's also a risk that you saying "No Call" would make people think that you saw the complete action and ruled it as a no call while in fact you're not calling it because you didn't see what happened. If another ref saw the action and saw that it was a penalty and heard you say "No Call" they might decide to not call the penalty they thought they saw since they might think that you saw it as legal.

Offline FNZebra

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 06:48:21 pm »
Agree w /0.

Saying that mid-jam would likely cause more ambiguity & possible problems than it would resolve.

After the jam I would skate over to the aggrieved Skater, and apologize for the no call & briefly explain why it was a no call. "I'm sorry. I know this sucks, and you definitely were blocked from behind, but I couldn't make a call on that because my view of where your were actually hit was blocked. Again, I'm very sorry. Now I'm going to go talk with my OPRs about keeping their vision wider, to help our crew catch things like that. "
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Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 03:32:56 pm »
The one exception I can see would be if you blow your whistle and then change your mind about issuing a penalty for any reason.  In that case, I'll always say "No Call" so as not to make the NSOs more confused than I already have.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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Offline llama of death

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 07:15:08 pm »
What information are you conveying with that verbal cue? I don't feel saying "No Call" is giving the jammer any information that you simply not calling the penalty would?

There's also a risk that you saying "No Call" would make people think that you saw the complete action and ruled it as a no call while in fact you're not calling it because you didn't see what happened. If another ref saw the action and saw that it was a penalty and heard you say "No Call" they might decide to not call the penalty they thought they saw since they might think that you saw it as legal.

It is a question of public relations versus not doing anything we are not specifically told to do.

Training has me respond exactly the way you describe, but my feeling is this interaction could be made less confrontational by simply communicating a little bit more. If not by verbally giving no call, than by some other non-standard vebal cue.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 07:17:46 pm by llama of death »
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Noah Fence

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 12:31:11 am »
I tend to agree with AdamSmasher on "No Call". In an instance where I have "jumped the gun" on calling a penalty (I try my best, but it happens to all of us at some point), where I blew my whistle, and before color/number/penalty came out of my mouth, my brain realized that it wasn't a penalty.
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Offline BadgerBadger

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 10:59:11 am »
Yeah, if your whistle goes off in error, it's totally reasonable to explain why, to nearby officials and/or skaters. Personally I'm rarely that articulate when I've done it - I've been more "Sorry! Sorry, no penalty!" :)

But explaining no-calls mid-jam seems like more trouble than it's worth. I did it once or twice, reflexively answering a question from a coach or skater, but it always added more confusion. I think it would be a bad habit.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 03:06:52 pm »
Yeah, if your whistle goes off in error, it's totally reasonable to explain why, to nearby officials and/or skaters. Personally I'm rarely that articulate when I've done it - I've been more "Sorry! Sorry, no penalty!" :)

Ah... the Canadian approach.

Quote
But explaining no-calls mid-jam seems like more trouble than it's worth. I did it once or twice, reflexively answering a question from a coach or skater, but it always added more confusion. I think it would be a bad habit.

Oh, no, I agree I certainly wouldn't EXPLAIN myself.  I'd just make verbally clear that no penalty was being issued, possibly also with some terribly non-standard arm gestures, and then move on with my life.
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
Rules Colored Glasses - Useful Officiating Stuff

Offline llama of death

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 04:20:23 pm »
Oh, no, I agree I certainly wouldn't EXPLAIN myself.
Absolutely, I am not looking to add more work to our jobs as refs, explaining a call mid-jam would be costly in time both at that moment and possibly lead to unnecessary ORs.

I'd just make verbally clear that no penalty was being issued, possibly also with some terribly non-standard arm gestures, and then move on with my life.
I am curious if you do not plan to use "no call" in this way what would you say to make it clear that no call will be issued for the action they are "waiting for you to call." I keep mulling it over and a quick verbal - "no call" seems most prudent to get them to stop sitting there, move on, and play their game again.

I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Non standard verbal cues to players/coaches
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 07:36:25 pm »
Oh, no, I agree I certainly wouldn't EXPLAIN myself.
Absolutely, I am not looking to add more work to our jobs as refs, explaining a call mid-jam would be costly in time both at that moment and possibly lead to unnecessary ORs.

I'd just make verbally clear that no penalty was being issued, possibly also with some terribly non-standard arm gestures, and then move on with my life.
I am curious if you do not plan to use "no call" in this way what would you say to make it clear that no call will be issued for the action they are "waiting for you to call." I keep mulling it over and a quick verbal - "no call" seems most prudent to get them to stop sitting there, move on, and play their game again.

I'm not being clear, sorry.  I almost ALWAYS say either "No Call" or "No Penalty".  Possibly with some attendant arm gestures that probably look more like "Not lead" than they should.

Also, that's more for the NSOs than the skaters.  If you blow the whistle and then don't say a color or number, they (the skaters) probably won't care, but the penalty tracker is now wondering what the hell happened.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 07:38:01 pm by AdamSmasher »
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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