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Author Topic: How would you handle this scenario?  (Read 2430 times)

Offline Just Fo Sho

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How would you handle this scenario?
« on: May 01, 2016, 01:30:42 pm »
Officiated (as Jam Ref) in a sanctioned game yesterday with an overly aggressive skater. Said skater was more so aggressive to her own teammates. In one instance, the skater yelled at her blocker, "Your not doing anything, your fucking useless" then proceeded to aggressively push her blocker down to the ground in which the blockers head hit an opposing players skate. This behavior occurred toward the last 10-15 minutes of the first half. I did my diligence at the half time huddle and suggested that the behavior was below board of professionalism and a safety hazard not only to her skaters but the visiting skaters as well. This continued at times in the second half as well.
My question(s):

Q1: What penalty (if any) could have or should have been called.
Q2: How should HR have mitigated the situation before and after I brought up my concern.

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: How would you handle this scenario?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2016, 01:46:16 pm »
For Q1, it could be a Misconduct penalty ("Unsporting Conduct" verbal cue in the new list).

[rule]5.16.11 - The excessive use of obscene, profane, or abusive language or gestures directed at an opponent, teammate, manager, coach, or other team support staff. If no one can be singled out as the offending party but it is clearly coming from a Skater, or if a team as a whole is being offensive (though no individual Skater’s offensive speech is considered “excessive”), this penalty will be assessed to the corresponding Captain. (Emphasis mine)[/rule]

I think the use of the word "fucking" combined with the aggressive, abusive shove could easily put it in the category of excessive. If it continued or the shove was particularly heinous, it could be upgraded to Gross Misconduct under either of these rules:
[rule]5.16.22 - The repetitive and excessive use of obscene, profane, or abusive language or gestures directed at an opponent, teammate, manager, coach, or other support staff.

5.16.23 - Fighting, defined as a physical struggle that is not part of regular game play. A Skater who only defends blows and does not engage in the fight will not be penalized (see Section 6.4.2).[/rule]

As far as Q2: If it's a genuine concern, the HR can call an OTO and have a discussion with the captains about the aggressive behavior. It can be non-targeted, like, "I'm giving us a short breather because we're seeing some overly aggressive action on the track that's concerning to us. Please remember that Misconduct penalties can be issued for aggressiveness that goes beyond gameplay, including towards teammates.

Of course, that may or not be the best course. I'll wait with you to hear from folks who have more experience dealing with this kind of situation.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: How would you handle this scenario?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 02:32:35 am »
What they said above applies, although the gross misconduct for "fighting" doesn't seem quite appropriate here.  I'd be more inclined to go with this expulsion-level action:

[rule]5.16.26 - Serious physical violence or any action deemed by the Officials to cause an extraordinary physical threat.[/rule]

Pushing a teammate into an opponent is certainly legal.  Pushing a teammate down to cause injury or harm is not.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: How would you handle this scenario?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 03:38:56 pm »
What they said above applies, although the gross misconduct for "fighting" doesn't seem quite appropriate here.  I'd be more inclined to go with this expulsion-level action:

[rule]5.16.26 - Serious physical violence or any action deemed by the Officials to cause an extraordinary physical threat.[/rule]

Pushing a teammate into an opponent is certainly legal.  Pushing a teammate down to cause injury or harm is not.

Agreed that 5.16.26 can definitely apply, too. My intent for including the "fighting" rule was in a case where it escalated to that level, not that it was at that level already. The takeaway is that you don't have to be fighting an opponent to earn a fighting call..
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Kabong

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Re: How would you handle this scenario?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 05:53:24 pm »
As far as Q2: If it's a genuine concern, the HR can call an OTO and have a discussion with the captains about the aggressive behavior. It can be non-targeted, like, "I'm giving us a short breather because we're seeing some overly aggressive action on the track that's concerning to us. Please remember that Misconduct penalties can be issued for aggressiveness that goes beyond gameplay, including towards teammates.

Of course, that may or not be the best course. I'll wait with you to hear from folks who have more experience dealing with this kind of situation.

I'm interested in this bit. I have a gut disagreement with this use of an OTO, but it's not the first time I've heard it. I think giving a "breather" is a little on the patronizing side. I get though that we are trying overall to be more human with (rare) warnings for blocking with the head and so on, but I still feel in my stripes, if it's at the misconduct level, a misconduct penalty should suffice. If it continues to the point of gross misconduct, there it is. At that point, I do see purpose in having a discussion with a captain, asking them to talk to the expelled skater, if there's any sort of interference (before sitting for that captain penalty). I don't intend to derail this conversation, but I think it's pretty much answered with an unsporting conduct penalty.
Kabong
Skating Official/Skater

 

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