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Author Topic: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?  (Read 4376 times)

Offline Bluebeard

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Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« on: June 22, 2016, 12:18:36 am »
a clip from the game Saturday night.
https://youtu.be/1hfl6qpPAQE
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzvCc39ggT3zUmFJaGNmTjUxWGM/view?usp=sharing

It certainly looked to me like a charge, but people really did not like that call and even called an official review on it (they might not have known the new verbal cue or that fairly uncommon rule;  this was recreational level play).  it takes place just coming out of turn 2 about 6 seconds into the clip.

Offline General Hellativity

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2016, 12:14:22 pm »
It's hard to tell from way out where the camera is, and it only captures half the action. You were closer and saw the whole thing.

That being said, it doesn't look like charging to me, in my inexpert opinion. If anything, a low block on Black Blocker.

The difference is initiation. Who initiated the contact between Black Blocker and Red Jammer? Whose trajectory changed to cause that contact to happen and whose remained the same? It was Black Blocker's trajectory that changed; she fell into Red Jammer's legs, and it doesn't look to me like RJ had much of a chance to get out of the way. In fact, as the contact goes on, BB continues while down to plow more and more into RJ's path. If BB was sprawling or flailing and not falling small (all this is hard to tell from the video), I would call a low block on her. I don't see initiation from Red Jammer. If anything, I think I see her trying to avoid the falling Black Blocker. It's hard for me to tell if there was anything RJ even could have done to avoid falling over BB.

Charging, in my not at all expert opinion, looks more like "Black Blocker goes down, then a beat or two later, after Red Jammer had enough time to see, react to, and avoid her, she instead either failed to avoid or changed trajectory towards the downed skater, thus initiating her own block against her."

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2016, 06:25:06 pm »
Yeah looks like a Low Block on black to me. If Red didn't go down there and black wasn't sliding forward, then I think you would have grounds to call the charging call. Because black is sliding through the action, its tough to see Red as the initiator here.
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Offline Bluebeard

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2016, 09:37:39 pm »
Okay, thanks for the input guys.  It sounds like I need to re-calibrate. 

What I saw that prompted the call:
  • Red Jammer rounds corner
  • Purple Blocker engages Red Jammer
  • Purple Blocker falls
  • Red Jammer starts "Bucking" like she's trying to move/break up a wall (not very obvious in video)
  • Red Jammer eventually falls and calls the jam

PS: Vice, I Look forward to meeting/working with you this weekend.

[edit]: for clarity and precision
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 10:54:41 pm by Bluebeard »

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2016, 09:46:16 pm »
Okay, thanks for the input guys.  It sounds like I need to re-calibrate. 

What I saw that prompted the call:
  • Red Jammer rounds corner, engages Purple Blocker (obvious in video)
  • Purple Blocker falls (obvious in video)
  • Red Jammer starts "Bucking" like she's trying to move/break up a wall (less obvious in video)
  • Red Jammer eventually falls and calls the jam

PS: Vice, I Look forward to meeting/working with you this weekend.
It actually looks to me like the Purple Blocker did all the engaging. When the Jammer comes around the corner, the Blocker backs into the Jammer, who then tries to avoid her. Blocker attempts another block and falls, then Jammer tries to get around, but Blocker comes up and hits the Jammer. It's hard to tell if it's a Low Block (all of the contact may have happened above the knee pad), but there's a better chance the Blocker could have also earned a Blocking While Down call.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 11:42:05 pm by Stray Taco »
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Offline SeerSin

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2016, 11:25:24 pm »
With the caveat that I can't determine it definitively from the video, the charging call doesn't look out of line to me. It looks to me that the upright skater continued to engage by pushing forward into the downed skater, in other words a new initiation. Once a skater goes down engagement must cease, if it doesn't that's charging.

It is a call we should be cautious with though. Sometimes skaters get tangled up and already had forward or lateral motion, and the fact that they're tangled up prevents them from stopping or avoiding the contact. That's playing roller derby. The penalty happens when the skater applies additional force to that downed blocker that wasn't part of the original block. It's the difference between someone tripping you and you tripping yourself.

Offline MyBabyDaddy

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 08:38:07 pm »
Looks like the red jammer was already moving along the line when the blocker fell. She's not trying to engage, but is off-balance from trying to hop around the down skater (who didn't fall small) and there may have been some incidental contact. I'd give a low block to the purple blocker.

Offline EL-REFE

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 07:02:08 pm »
I know this is an old thread, but just curious where the verbal cue "charging" is found. I couldn't find anything in the 2015 or 2017 rulesets. I went to the WFTDA playoffs in Dallas this weekend and heard this call a couple of times, so I'm assuming it's before my time (reffing time).

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Charging: Appropriate, or overcall?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 08:19:00 pm »
All the verbal cues can be found here:

https://static.wftda.com/officiating/WFTDA-Officiating-Verbal-Cues.pdf

Keep in mind all the rules numbers have changed since this was released.
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