intruder

Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Re: Clamping down with the upper arm by bmd (2113)
June 12, 2019, 07:54:29 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Major Wood
June 12, 2019, 04:16:34 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Rego_Derby
June 11, 2019, 11:35:08 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Axis of Stevil
June 10, 2019, 06:56:10 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Major Wood
June 10, 2019, 01:49:04 pm

Ref facepaint by Rego_Derby
June 09, 2019, 03:38:38 pm

Re: Answering a directional with forearms by Major Wood
April 30, 2019, 07:44:47 pm

Answering a directional with forearms by Rego_Derby
April 30, 2019, 05:56:20 pm

Re: Yielding to the opposite side of the track by Bluebeard
April 22, 2019, 07:21:28 pm

Yielding to the opposite side of the track by MyBabyDaddy
April 21, 2019, 03:22:45 am

Author Topic: Illegal Call-Off?  (Read 3143 times)

Offline General Hellativity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ithaca League of Women Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Illegal Call-Off?
« on: July 12, 2016, 12:22:24 pm »
When is a jammer's call-off actually made?

Scenario: Jammer is doing the hip-tap-head-tap call off. After the second hip tap but before the JR's four whistles, she head-taps and pops the star off her head. (This actually happened at a league scrimmage yesterday)

Illegal Call-Off or not? I'm thinking legal.. since when she tapped the second time the star was still on, even though she was not lead jammer when the call-off was actually made. Thoughts?

Offline AdamSmasher

  • Referee
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 230
  • Stats Sheet: 3
  • League Affiliation: Lansing Derby Vixens
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 3
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 01:18:10 pm »
When is a jammer's call-off actually made?

Scenario: Jammer is doing the hip-tap-head-tap call off. After the second hip tap but before the JR's four whistles, she head-taps and pops the star off her head. (This actually happened at a league scrimmage yesterday)

Illegal Call-Off or not? I'm thinking legal.. since when she tapped the second time the star was still on, even though she was not lead jammer when the call-off was actually made. Thoughts?

I think this falls firmly in the realm of "Not looking for reasons to call penalties."
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
Rules Colored Glasses - Useful Officiating Stuff

Offline Stray Taco

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 384
  • Stats Sheet: 4
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Derby / Athens Ohio Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 05:10:05 pm »
When is a jammer's call-off actually made?

Scenario: Jammer is doing the hip-tap-head-tap call off. After the second hip tap but before the JR's four whistles, she head-taps and pops the star off her head. (This actually happened at a league scrimmage yesterday)

Illegal Call-Off or not? I'm thinking legal.. since when she tapped the second time the star was still on, even though she was not lead jammer when the call-off was actually made. Thoughts?

I think this falls firmly in the realm of "Not looking for reasons to call penalties."

I was going to say almost the same thing.

Did the JR blow the four whistles? If so, no penalty because I bet they were still pointing at the Jammer, so it'd be the same as if the JR was pointing at someone who wasn't actually Lead Jammer, no penalty because the Jammer was acting on incorrect information from an Official.

Now an interesting corollary question to me would be: if the whistle hadn't blown yet and the JR sees the helmet cover fall off. Do they call it off? I'd say yes if the Jammer touched their hips multiple times (at least twice) before the cover came off, but not if it fell off after the first tap of the hips.

[rule]2.4.7 - The Lead Jammer may call off the jam at any time after their position has been established unless the Jammer has been removed from the jam due to a penalty or their helmet cover has been removed. If the helmet cover is removed by an opponent’s action or in the course of natural game play, the Jammer may replace the helmet cover and regain Lead Jammer status. The Lead Jammer calls off the jam by repeatedly placing both hands on their hips until a Referee whistles the end of the jam. The jam is not over until the Referee officially calls off the jam. If there is no Lead Jammer, the jam will run until the full two-minute time limit expires.[/rule]
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline FNZebra

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1408
  • Stats Sheet: 35
  • I'm a shitty ref.
  • League Affiliation: Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 01:34:36 am »
When is a jammer's call-off actually made?

Scenario: Jammer is doing the hip-tap-head-tap call off. After the second hip tap but before the JR's four whistles, she head-taps and pops the star off her head. (This actually happened at a league scrimmage yesterday)

Illegal Call-Off or not? I'm thinking legal.. since when she tapped the second time the star was still on, even though she was not lead jammer when the call-off was actually made. Thoughts?

Smasher & Mike have this one.

Lead Jammer's hands were tapping hips repeatedly, & LJ wasn't penalized right before the taps. Legal call-off here. (If a genuine penalty is committed by the LJ after tapping hips repeatedly, jam is called off, then penalty assessed. If penalty happens before the repeated taps, then penalty & no call-off.)

Here, "wasn't LJ" when call-off made because the Jammer Ref wasn't on top of their own game to end the jam faster. That's something the HR should take up with the JR (e.g., "Hey, try to be in a better position to tighten up those call-offs."), or else bench staff will be flying out and not being as polite about it.

And WHY WHY WHY would any referee do something to possibly dissuade a Jammer from making big call-off signals?   :o
 ;)
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline General Hellativity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ithaca League of Women Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 12:44:36 pm »
I agree it was a bit of an academic question. ;)

To answer the question of "why would you want to dissuade" etc., it's not exactly my job, but this skater habitually doesn't put helmet covers on all the way, because they have other people's sweat on them. So they pop off her head all the time.

Offline Stray Taco

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 384
  • Stats Sheet: 4
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Derby / Athens Ohio Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 12:51:13 pm »
I agree it was a bit of an academic question. ;)

To answer the question of "why would you want to dissuade" etc., it's not exactly my job, but this skater habitually doesn't put helmet covers on all the way, because they have other people's sweat on them. So they pop off her head all the time.

There are other consequences of losing the helmet cover that could be explained to her (if you practice with her), or at least can be a deterrent without searching for a penalty. When a helmet cover is lost, the Jammer (1) can't score points, (2) gets no credit for passes, and (3) alters her team's strategy from getting the Jammer through for lead/points to helping her get her cover back.

Sometimes just letting the chips fall will be enough - and if not her teammates have the responsibility of getting her to not do things that have cost to the team.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline The Sharmanator

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Girls / Cincinnati Battering Rams
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Illegal Call-Off?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 06:45:23 pm »
I agree it was a bit of an academic question. ;)

To answer the question of "why would you want to dissuade" etc., it's not exactly my job, but this skater habitually doesn't put helmet covers on all the way, because they have other people's sweat on them. So they pop off her head all the time.

There are other consequences of losing the helmet cover that could be explained to her (if you practice with her), or at least can be a deterrent without searching for a penalty. When a helmet cover is lost, the Jammer (1) can't score points, (2) gets no credit for passes, and (3) alters her team's strategy from getting the Jammer through for lead/points to helping her get her cover back.

Sometimes just letting the chips fall will be enough - and if not her teammates have the responsibility of getting her to not do things that have cost to the team.

Taco,

   Sorry but do you mean when you said "(2) gets no credit for passes"?

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3173
Views: 5015
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2272
Views: 4681
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 2427
Views: 5211
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3214
Views: 5227
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal