intruder

Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Re: JAMMER HELMET COVER by Stray Taco
October 03, 2019, 12:54:03 pm

Clover Cup 2020 - March 20-22 - North Richland Hills, TX USA by SodOff
September 28, 2019, 10:09:13 am

JAMMER HELMET COVER by 3Beers
September 22, 2019, 12:35:26 pm

Re: "Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Bluebeard
July 11, 2019, 06:30:49 pm

"Pincer" blocks = multipayer? by Rego_Derby
July 11, 2019, 01:08:36 am

Re: Jammer Scoring Theory by Major Wood
June 26, 2019, 09:59:33 pm

Jammer Scoring Theory by Rego_Derby
June 25, 2019, 04:30:03 am

Re: Clamping down with the upper arm by bmd (2113)
June 12, 2019, 07:54:29 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Major Wood
June 12, 2019, 04:16:34 pm

Re: Ref facepaint by Rego_Derby
June 11, 2019, 11:35:08 pm

Author Topic: Low Block?  (Read 8467 times)

Offline Stray Taco

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 385
  • Stats Sheet: 4
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Derby / Athens Ohio Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 08:11:35 pm »
The quick answer is that there's nothing in the rules that says a duck or avoid isn't a block. There are plenty of things that happen on the derby track that aren't meant to be blocks but aren't - falling down but not small can be considered a block; flailing arms to keep balance can be considered a block, being pushed into another skater by both legal and illegal means can be considered a block.

To me, it came down to who's making the last action before the contact, and that was the jammer. If you took any other engagement where a player changes the point of impact on a collision, we'd say the initiator is the last person. The most common example is a jammer skating into a four-wall, and was about to go legally through the outside shoulders, until a blocker at the last second put her back in the way. Despite the blocker being blown up from the contact on her back, she initiated the action. I'm not seeing much different here.

Take with a handful of salt. This is just my opinion, and there is a lot of talk out there debating this.

I respect your handfuls of salt :) (I know that line from ref-ed).

While it doesn't say ducking isn't a block, the rules do say ducking isn't a counter-block, and I think given that this is a response to an incoming block, that's the criteria that should be used.

[rule]Counter-Block
Any motion/movement toward an oncoming block by the receiving opponent designed to counteract an opponent’s block. Counter-blocking is treated as blocking and held to the same standards and rules. Standing up, turning away, ducking, etc. are not considered counter-blocking (see Section 4 - Blocking).[/rule]

That's the reason that right now I'm still firmly on the side of a no call. Of course, I stay on the side of a no call until I'm 100% on the side of a penalty... so I'm still willing to listen.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline FNZebra

  • Superhero Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 1408
  • Stats Sheet: 35
  • I'm a shitty ref.
  • League Affiliation: Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2016, 08:50:24 pm »
I see a Jammer who leans toward the incoming Blocker, while dropping their (J) center of gravity. I wouldn't classify it as ducking, and would consider it a counter block.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Major Wood

  • Administrator
  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
  • Stats Sheet: 77
  • League Affiliation: Nashville Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 5
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2016, 08:55:58 pm »
I don't see a jammer making any motion toward the incoming blocker. I see a jammer getting low in an effort to avoid a block, maybe brace against it, even. If I saw a movement toward the block, I might agree with a low block. From what I see, I don't think it's a low block.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline The Sharmanator

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Girls / Cincinnati Battering Rams
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2016, 09:01:34 pm »
I see a Jammer who leans toward the incoming Blocker, while dropping their (J) center of gravity. I wouldn't classify it as ducking, and would consider it a counter block.

I'm just not seeing the lean in towards the blocker.  All I see is the jammer ducking straight down while he completes his turn as he remain in his trajectory following the outside line.  He was already entered into a turn prior to the contact. IMHO.

Offline The Sharmanator

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Girls / Cincinnati Battering Rams
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2016, 09:15:42 pm »
I've been watching this a lot, and I'm starting to lean toward low-block, and the reason is that the jammer deliberately made an action that changed the point of impact and the target zone.

Is this illegal?  Is it the responsibility of the player to present and hold an easy point of impact and target zone for an opposing player that wants to conduct a block on you?  If a blocker tried to block me and I immediately stopped and the blocker missed and went flying passed me landing on his head should I be penalized for deliberately making an action to make him miss and land on his head?  Isn't that what I'm suppose to do, just good derby? 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 09:32:09 pm by The Sharmanator »

Offline Wernher

  • Referee
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Stats Sheet: 2
  • League Affiliation: Minnesota RollerGirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 4
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 10:12:33 pm »
I would say there's a difference between missing someone, and changing the point of contact. If you avoid someone and they get hurt, then it's their own fault for going in out of control. Change the point of contact to an illegal target zone and they get hurt, then yeah, it's your fault, because you changed it.

It sounds like the real point of contention is if the drop is a duck/avoidance maneuver, or a bracing/counter-block. My soccer background has well instilled in me the acronym ITOOTR (In the Option of the Referee), which is all cool. One thing that I haven't seen a lot of in these discussions (here or elsewhere) is that most of us have looked at this engagement many (if not dozens) of times, while the refs on the track get the one. So as an academic exercise I'm happy to natter on about situations, but in a practical sense, if I was watching the game in-person, I'd be perfectly OK with a call or no-call.
Wernher Von Bombed
Assistant Head Ref
Minnesota RollerGirls

Offline Mav'Ricky

  • Referee
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Stats Sheet: 0
  • League Affiliation: Victorian Roller Derby League (Melbourne, Australia)
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Low Block?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 05:10:09 am »
Also, I believe they refer to it as a Bob, not a duck. Slight difference but I'm certain it comes from ice hockey parlance where "ducking" (verb) has negative connotations, unlike bobbing (and it's friend weaving)
The reason it's being called a "duck" here is because that's part of what specifically makes it not a penalty.

Because green jammer was ducking, it wasn't a counter-block, and therefore not a penalty.

Nice pickup Taco thanks!
Be fair. Be clear.

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3926
Views: 6409
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2550
Views: 5262
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 2745
Views: 5875
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 3537
Views: 5871
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal