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Author Topic: Ultimate WT#%$@ play  (Read 759 times)

Offline llama of death

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Ultimate WT#%$@ play
« on: August 18, 2016, 09:58:27 pm »
0
OK so ultimate how would you even handle this as a crew scenario here.

Black fields #s 1-4 as blockers and #5 as jammer just in front of the jam line.
White fields a standard team as well.
Then 4 more black step on to the track as jammers all with stars. (#s 6 through 9)
Then 2 more black pivots skate on ahead of the pivot line (#s 10 through 11).
Then the last 2 black blockers (12 and 13) step on head of the white wall.
White confused moves up to the Pivot line.
Five seconds is called.
At 3 seconds the original pivot returns to bench.
Black 1, and 2 remain on the track and infront of the pivot line.
At 4 seconds one of the pivots ahead of the pivot line step backwards to stand on the line and gets their hips back as far as possible. (the white team does not respond and is now ahead the black pivots hips.
As soon as the whistle blows the remaining black pivots race forward, followed by white team.
The original jammer and black 1 and 2 race forward Upon hearing the no pack call (white is null as they all false started).
White hearing no pack and seeing the black pivots running away in the front (who are being sent back to their benches individually as one of the four originals is now an actual pivot but never did take off with the white team and is still standing on the pivot line.

At this point she is ??OoP?? of the non existent pack. White is still racing forward as they think they are the rear of the pack. So now they are getting more no packs and getting failure to yield and failure to reform penalties.

Black pivots are now all back on their benches. The remaining white blockers have figured it out and have stopped on the track. The pack reforms just as black and white jammers reach the pack.

The pack is now "here" and black proceeds to block the white jammer OoB. But both fall OoB as a result. The black pivot and remaining black blocker fall in the attempt to block the white wall and black jammer passes the white wall.


.... is the a point where enough is enough? What is the best way as a ref crew to split our attention in response to multiple blockers who do not belong to this jam while at the same time defining pack and issuing penalties.

Who should do what when, basically. I obviously have my own ideas on how to handle this in an ideal crew, but I am attempting to see if there is a better way to deal with complex sendoffs and pack corrections.

Does this change for you if there are less refs particularly one IPR and a few inexperienced OPRs.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Re: Ultimate WT#%$@ play
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2016, 11:21:46 pm »
+6
I didn't do the math, but there are what... 11 black skaters on the track?  Waaayyy more than could conceivably be considered normal.

Black's too many skaters shenanigans have created an unyieldable competitive advantage at the moment of jam start.  I would therefore call the jam immediately after it starts and issue a penalty to the black captain.

Normally too many skaters penalties go to the extra skater that forces the jam to be called off, but it's impossible to determine who that is in this case.  So I'd use this rule...

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
6.1.5 - If a single penalty is committed by a group of teammates, or if no one single Skater can be identified as most responsible (including penalties committed during a jam), the penalty will be assessed to the team’s Pivot unless otherwise specified. If there is not a Pivot, it will go to the Captain.

... to issue the penalty to the captain.  (I might have considered the pivot, but there are two of them.)

I would also warn the captain that such shenanigans will not be tolerated in future jams, and she will be held personally responsible for a Misconduct penalty each and every time this occurs in the future.  I justify that decision based on the logic that deliberately attempting to start a jam with 11 (or so) skaters from a team is an "act which undermines the dignity of the sport" (see 5.16).

Edit: fixed minor grammatical issue
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 06:49:26 am by Axis of Stevil »
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline ShoNuff

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Re: Ultimate WT#%$@ play
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 07:21:38 am »
+5
Use

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
5.13.12 - Forcing a jam to be called off due to too many Skaters on the track. Per Section 8.2.1.1.1, if too many Skaters are on the track, the Referees will direct a Skater off the track. If a Skater does not leave the track and the jam is called off due to too many Skaters being on the track, that Skater will receive the penalty.

as guidance.

Call the jam.  There is no way to remove that many skaters before they have had significant impact on the jam.

With that many potential extra skaters and no clarity on who the jammer is, assign penalty to the captain.


Offline SeerSin

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Re: Ultimate WT#%$@ play
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2016, 01:00:53 pm »
0
Agree with Axis and Shonuff. That's not how roller derby is played.

Offline llama of death

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Re: Ultimate WT#%$@ play
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2016, 08:36:50 pm »
0
Hence hypothetical discussion. BTW a similar play was discussed by the players not too long ago hence me wondering if I was off my rocker for wanting to cal the jam dead in this case.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

 

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