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Author Topic: Jammer panty on sideways  (Read 8041 times)

Offline Russell Crowbar

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Jammer panty on sideways
« on: January 19, 2009, 06:43:07 am »
Hiya!

I've been a lurker on here for a while and have really appreciated all the great advice from so many great refs.

One of our skaters brought up an event that happened to her in the past that she wanted clarification on. She said that at an event she was told by a ref that she would be ineligible to score points as a jammer because her helmet panty was sideways (stars facing front and back). I see in the rules that it clarifies that the helmet panty has to have the stars on the sides, but I don't see where it would state that she would not be eligible to score points on a legal pass.

Your input is appreciated.
Russell Crowbar
WFTDA Level 2 Certified NSO
Angel City Derby Girls
Los Angeles, CA

Offline Stegoscorus

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 09:08:13 am »
We go by "if the stars are visible."  If it's on sideways, they may not be visible, and certainly aren't AS visible as if the helmet cover is on straight.  If it's inside-out, the stars may not be visible at all, unless they're on both sides of the material.

Different refs have different levels of pickiness about this.  Some will be able to tell it's a jammer cover, even if it's not in the ideal position, and count the points she's earned.  Others will insist that it's on exactly right to consider her eligible to score points. 
WFTDA Certified Referee - Level 3
Founding Member, ARROW
Portland, OR, U.S.A.

Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 11:27:53 am »
I'd probably not complain as long as I could recognise her as the jammer. Having said that, if you want to use a grounding in the rules you could site the following stating that they must have the stars on the side of their helmet:

3.3.2 Jammer Identification: Jammers wear a helmet cover with two stars, one on each side, as specified in Section 3.6 Helmet Covers.

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 12:23:42 pm »
While its a little much to complain about something like that I can understand how a jammer could confuse a Pivot helmet cover for a Jammer helmet cover. After all, The Pivot one has nothing in the side, the Jammer one does. If two skaters have helmet covers on with nothing on the side it may be possible to believe they are both wearing Pivot covers. The rules put the stars on the side for a reason. So, while I wouldn't call it, I can understand why someone else would.

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 12:52:16 pm »
for the sake of the game - as long as she can be clearly identified as jammer (according to 3.6 'easily identifiable') - I would not call it.

Don't look at the game with rules-tinted glasses; look at the rules with game-tinted glasses!

Offline Rev. Riot

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2009, 01:12:18 am »
Gotta be on the side...

Um, which side? Front side? Back side? Left side? Right side?

We've operated under the interpretation that visible is the important part, askew, even 90 degrees askew, is allowable.
Matthew Mantsch - Reverend Riot
WFTDA Rules Theory Committee
Gotham Girls Roller Derby - NYC

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 12:41:10 pm »
Front and back aren't sides.

I agree that 90 degrees askew is acceptable, I cant blame the ref who called it the way he saw it. The rules clearly state stars on the sides.

Offline Brother Grim

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 08:21:13 pm »
Without being too picky, the rules only state that the stars must be on the left and right side of the panty itself, not the helmet. So, technically even if it is askew, the stars are still on the sides of the panty.
Brother Grim

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 02:52:14 am »
That's being too picky. I mean I cna be too picky and say that the rules don't specify inside or outside. This one isn't really all that ambiguous.

Offline Ref Neck

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 06:50:26 am »
Gotta be on the side...

Um, which side? Front side? Back side? Left side? Right side?

We've operated under the interpretation that visible is the important part, askew, even 90 degrees askew, is allowable.

Amen. Whats next, you didn't score those points because your head was turned while you passed that blocker?

If your league has helmet covers that are not reversable (see the star when the cover is on inside out or normally) tell them to make some and throw the others in the trash. Explaining to a jammer that the star was not visable so they never scored any points during that jam will cause some heartburn.
DC Rollergirls, Head Referee

Offline bronco

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 07:57:50 pm »
Actually, I think that ref was me.

The skater in question was wearing "star" stickers (Radar wheels) on either side of her helmet and was almost awarded lead jammer status, until I noticed there was another girl with stars on her helmet farther back in the pack (i.e. the real jammer).  I removed the star stickers and the discussion ensued about whether star stickers could be worn legally on a helmet and lots of girls have these stickers and where are we supposed to put them.  I said stars should only be worn by jammers, and a few of the girls commented about "front and back, or on top should be ok"

Now I always make sure that at most two skaters are wearing stars before the jam starts ;)

... Bronco
... Ref. Bronco

Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 09:05:56 am »
We had a similar situation whereby one of our skaters had a helmet design that (unintentionally) mimiced a pivot cover. Thankfully she has a new helmet now.

Offline bronco

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Re: Jammer panty on sideways
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 08:38:58 pm »
Seems like every scrimmage, at some point, has two girls wearing the same color jammer panties.
And, for some unknown reason, its usually the black panties.

Despite cries of "But one has a pink star and one has a yellow star" I make them change to black and not-black.
And always make sure that only two skaters have stars in the penalty box and on the track.

... Bronco

... Ref. Bronco

 

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