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Author Topic: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box  (Read 729 times)

Offline Jerry Sling-her

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Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« on: January 12, 2017, 03:35:28 pm »
0
Hello!

Following some debate within my league, I've been looking to determine whether the act of crossing the infield to the penalty box is still a Skating-out-of-Bounds call. While the previous ruleset had an explicit reference in the form of 5.12.16.1, the new rules don't appear to support a penalty call. I can only assume that A) there'll be a casebook reference to it, B) it'll be in the Officiating Guide, or C) I'm missing something.

This is assuming, of course, that there's been no change to the status, I see no reason why it would be legal now.

Old Rules
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
5.12.16.1 - Cutting across the infield on the way to the Penalty Box.
UKRDA Director of Officials officials@ukrda.org.uk
MRDA Recognised
Bath Roller Derby Girls

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2017, 10:37:24 pm »
0
The only thing I see even remotely close is Scenario C4.40, and even that isn't very much to go by.
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Offline General Hellativity

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 06:07:23 pm »
0
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
4.3
Upon completion of the correct verbal cue and hand signal from an Official, the penalized Skater must immediately leave the track.

In most cases, cutting across the infield would require the skater to exit and then re-enter the track again to reach the penalty box, and would thus be a penalty.

In the case where a skater receives a penalty while already OOB inside the track, I agree there is no guidance.

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 07:49:42 pm »
0
The only other guidance we get is:

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
4.2.4. Other Illegal Procedures
Skaters who violate the rules of the game should be penalized if the violation has a
significant impact on the game. Examples of this are listed in the Rules of Flat Track Roller
Derby Casebook; however, Skaters and Officials should work to ensure that the rules are followed as
swiftly as possible, and to rectify any illegal or potentially illegal play before it has sufficient impact
on the game to warrant penalization. Nevertheless, if a technical violation by one team results in an
advantage, this should be penalized.

We all agree it is an advantage, but I'm not sure it is a violation. As of now, I won't be calling this a penalty. I think with the enter from either direction change, the amount of advantage is an extremely small amount. Prior to that change, it was a larger amount because it negated going the long way around to the box. Now with the option to go either way, there is always a short path.
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Offline llama of death

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 11:01:24 pm »
0
The only other guidance we get is:

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
4.2.4. Other Illegal Procedures
Skaters who violate the rules of the game should be penalized if the violation has a
significant impact on the game. Examples of this are listed in the Rules of Flat Track Roller
Derby Casebook; however, Skaters and Officials should work to ensure that the rules are followed as
swiftly as possible, and to rectify any illegal or potentially illegal play before it has sufficient impact
on the game to warrant penalization. Nevertheless, if a technical violation by one team results in an
advantage, this should be penalized.

We all agree it is an advantage, but I'm not sure it is a violation. As of now, I won't be calling this a penalty. I think with the enter from either direction change, the amount of advantage is an extremely small amount. Prior to that change, it was a larger amount because it negated going the long way around to the box. Now with the option to go either way, there is always a short path.

Illegal:
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
Upon completion of the correct verbal cue and hand signal from an Official, the penalized Skater must immediately leave the track.
Advantage: shortening the lap distance significantly on the way to the box.

I do not believe that exiting then entering the track then leaving it again should be allowed. While the rules are not clear on this [yet?] I believe this "loophole" to be not in the spirit of the rules. More than ever the rules are meant to be document about intention. The rules are no longer literal and exhaustive where as the casebook IS literal [still not exhaustive] and meant to be followed verbatim where written. If it is not in the casebook we have to use the casebook and rules as best we can as a guide.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 11:03:28 pm by llama of death »
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Speedy Convalesce

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 03:24:29 pm »
0
I do not believe that exiting then entering the track then leaving it again should be allowed.

I think this interpretation is influenced a lot by how things were done last year.

If we take the new rules in isolation, the only thing they clearly state is that penalized players should immediately leave the track. Everything after that is interpretation. If we consider the change from the old rules it is clear that there should be fewer restrictions regarding the way to the box. It's not clear how much more lenient we shall become.

A very plausible reason for the "leave the track" requirement is that they should no longer influence gameplay. This is still the case if they cross the track a little later in a place where there are no other skaters. So there is a plausible interpretation of the rules and a plausible intention behind them that is consistent with no penalty. So I can't be sure that crossing the infield on the way to the penalty box sould be penalized. If I'm not sure an action warrants a penalty, I should err on the side of no penalty. So that's what I will be doing unless a casebook entry (or something else) clarifies the situation in the other direction.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 04:20:22 pm »
+3
The WFTDA Rules Committee will be publishing these scenarios and adding them to the casebook. These are authorized for sharing outside of the WFTDA:

Scenario A
White Blocker is penalized and is directed to the Penalty Box. White Blocker seems unaware of the call and remains on the track. After several repeated calls, Officials are able to draw the attention of White Blocker, and they exit the track.
Outcome: White Blocker is penalized for neglectfully failing to immediately exit the track for a penalty.
Rationale: White Blocker has gained advantage and disrupted the flow of the game through lack of attention to clear instructions by the Officials.
Keep in Mind: Before assessing an additional penalty in this manner, Officials must ensure that:
    The penalty was called using the correct hand signal and verbal cue;
    The Official calling the penalty was correctly positioned for the Skater to potentially see the call; and
    The Official calling the penalty did so loudly enough to be heard, given the Official’s position, and the constraints and volume of the venue.

Scenario B
White Blocker is penalized while blocking Red Jammer. After acknowledging the call, White Blocker continues blocking Red Jammer to allow White Blocker’s teammate to get in position and impede Red Jammer’s progress. White Blocker then exits the track.
Outcome: White Blocker is penalized for willfully failing to immediately exit the track for a penalty.
Rationale: White Blocker has gained advantage through intentional disregard of the rules.
Keep in Mind: A penalized Skater is not required to behave as if a penalty has been assessed until the Official has completed the appropriate hand signals and verbal cues.

Scenario C
White Blocker commits a penalty, and is directed to the Penalty Box by an Official. White Blocker skates towards the Penalty Box, remaining in bounds for a significant distance before exiting the track.
Outcome: White Blocker is penalized for willfully failing to immediately exit the track for a penalty.
Rationale: White Blocker has gained advantage through intentional disregard of the rules.
Keep in Mind: Factors that an Official would use to determine that a Skater has failed to immediately exit the track include, but are not limited to:
    The Skater has substantially reduced the distance they needed to skate in order to enter the Penalty Box.
    Intentional disruption of gameplay, substantially more than would be expected from a Skater who is safely, legally, and immediately exiting the track.
Keep in Mind: A penalized Skater who is attempting to exit the track legally, but does not have an opportunity due to gameplay conditions should not be penalized in this manner.

Offline llama of death

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 09:18:01 pm »
0
 Is this posted anywhere officially on WFTDA websites?

I have a league or two in our area that refuses to accept anything they don't see black and white in the rules or on an official WFTDA publication, causing friction with any ref that uses such info.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Skating Across Infield to Penalty Box
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 09:44:05 pm »
+1
Is this posted anywhere officially on WFTDA websites?

I have a league or two in our area that refuses to accept anything they don't see black and white in the rules or on an official WFTDA publication, causing friction with any ref that uses such info.

As this is a new scenario, it WILL be added to the casebook eventually.  As I mentioned in the other thread - refusing to accept the word of officials with access to definitive Rules Committee opinions is basically shooting yourself in the foot.
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