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Author Topic: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?  (Read 6614 times)

Offline Ms. High-handed

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Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« on: May 22, 2011, 03:44:18 pm »
Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?

Situation:
It was in scrimmage yesterday
2 black blockers blocked a white Jammer and cause her out of bounds and then fell down. At the same time the 2 blockers were out of bounds and also fell down. But this 2 blockers got up first and very quickly back to the track and joined the pack. Imagine this that when the fell happened, the pack was behind ca. 10 feet or a bit less. So when this 2 blockers joined again the pack, the pack itself was 3 feet behind still. Then the white jammer got up and is trying to get in back into the track but in somehow not really successful and it turned that  she was straddling next to the 2 blockers (who knocked out her) and one her own team mate... it was kind of a line up. So when the Jammer increased her speed and back to the track. I called it a Major Cutting. But my Jammer Ref said it was nothing because because the the black blockers were also down even they got up and back to the track first, therefore the white Jammer was allowed to pass the blockers without having any major Cutting.

I never heard  as such thing, can someone clarify either it is nothing or fouls?

It was a complicated situation :-(

so far I know from glossary:

[rule]Out of Play: A Blocker that is positioned more than twenty (20) feet outside the pack, out of bounds, or down is out of play.[/rule]


Thanks

« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 03:49:37 pm by Ms. High-handed »

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 04:08:49 pm »
From what I understand, it would be no penalty.  She was already in front of the pack skaters when she got knocked out, and the blockers who knocked her out also went down or OOB, so there is no penalty for entering in front of them.

[rule]6.11.1.1
When the initiating skater is considered "in the box," having been sent off the track for a penalty (see Section 7.3.2.2.1).
6.11.1.2
When the initiating skater goes out of bounds at any time after the initiating block.
6.11.1.3
When the initiating skater downs herself or falls at any time after the initiating block.
6.11.1.4
When the initiating skater exits the Engagement Zone at any time after the initiating block.[/rule]

However, if the jammer were on a scoring pass, and passed the skaters OOB, she would not get points for those blockers.  In addition, she might be subject to Skating Out of Bounds penalties.  It just depends on how long she was out of bounds, and if she was skating along the track, or actively returning to the track.
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Offline Ms. High-handed

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 04:26:32 pm »
Thank you!

It is all clear now.

Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 02:35:12 pm »
Scenario #2, same question, different predicament:

Nearing the entry to turn #1, Red Jammer is hit by Black Blocker so hard that Red Jammer falls, slides through the apex of the turn, and while down, re-enters in front of 3 opposing Black Blockers.  She stands up, and then...

...what do you call?

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Offline Two Bit Score

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 04:23:16 pm »
Scenario #2, same question, different predicament:

Nearing the entry to turn #1, Red Jammer is hit by Black Blocker so hard that Red Jammer falls, slides through the apex of the turn, and while down, re-enters in front of 3 opposing Black Blockers.  She stands up, and then...

...what do you call?


Major Cut. 
This is assuming that those were 3 Black Blockers that she was behind when she went OOB. 

[rule]6.11.14
An in bounds, upright and skating skater who has re-entered the track from out of bounds in front of multiple in-play skaters, which results in her having bettered her position.[/rule]
When you first read the rule, it sounds like she needs to have entered the track upright and skating.  She can enter the track downed. It's when she becomes up right and skating again that she has committed a penalty re: 6.11.14.

Prior to that, she's (this isn't all of 6.11, just the applicable parts):
[rule]Skaters must be upright and skating to receive cutting the track penalties. (See Section 6.8 Out Of Bounds Blocking for downed skaters re-entering and illegally blocking and Section 6.3 Low Blocking). Downed skaters that have re-entered the track are subject to applicable cutting the track penalties when they return to an in-bounds, upright and skating position. Downed skaters are not to be penalized with cutting the track penalties, but are still subject to low blocking and blocking from out of bounds penalties. Skaters cannot drop back while in play in efforts to undo or avoid cutting the track penalties.[/rule]

So in your case above, if the jammer, after re-entering the track,  had fallen small, and waited for the 3 blockers to re-pass her, or had safely exited the track again, without ever standing (crawled off).. she would not have been subject to a penalty.


Any night when I can pull up the covers and say "I am a better ref right now than I was when I woke up," is a good day.
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 06:29:13 pm »
Not subject to Cutting the Track anyways..  She's still able to get a penalty for Low Block (even if she's small) from coming from out of bounds to in bounds and impacting skaters, or for low blocking someone while she's crawling off.

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Offline ttibbit

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 03:15:36 pm »
Does all three criteria have to be met to call the cut. (Upright, in bounds and skating). For example, player A gets knocked out by player B, immediately does a turnaround toe-stop but momentum carries her back on the track in front if player B. Upon completely stoppingunderstand her slide Playet A immediately jumps back out of bounds and re-enters behind player B. So she was upright, she did comeback in bounds, BUT, she was not skating.

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 03:43:55 pm »
Does all three criteria have to be met to call the cut. (Upright, in bounds and skating). For example, player A gets knocked out by player B, immediately does a turnaround toe-stop but momentum carries her back on the track in front if player B. Upon completely stoppingunderstand her slide Playet A immediately jumps back out of bounds and re-enters behind player B. So she was upright, she did comeback in bounds, BUT, she was not skating.
Based on what you have described, she was never down, so she was always "skating".  "Skating" does not necessarily mean "the act of taking strides with one's wheels in contact with the floor", it means something more along the lines of "any physical movement made by a skater who is not down" and can include stepping on toe stops, executing a stopping or turning maneuver, coasting, etc.

The key phrase in your description:
Quote
she did come back in bounds
If she was not down, and she came back in bounds after having been out of bounds, the only way she could have gotten there was through some form of "skating".
The Gorram Reaver
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Offline Zombi

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 05:22:19 pm »
Scenario #2, same question, different predicament:

Nearing the entry to turn #1, Red Jammer is hit by Black Blocker so hard that Red Jammer falls, slides through the apex of the turn, and while down, re-enters in front of 3 opposing Black Blockers.  She stands up, and then...

...what do you call?


Red jammer was fine until standing up. Once she gets to her skates, its a Cutting the Track Major. Provided she did not wait for the three black blockers to pass before she got up, and that they were in play...

   
Yes, we'll watch for elbows in the 2nd period...

Offline WhatAboutBob?

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Re: Question: Is it major cutting or minor or nothing?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 07:42:48 am »
Scenario #2, same question, different predicament:

Nearing the entry to turn #1, Red Jammer is hit by Black Blocker so hard that Red Jammer falls, slides through the apex of the turn, and while down, re-enters in front of 3 opposing Black Blockers.  She stands up, and then...

...what do you call?



Yes. it is a cut once she got up. Question is how long she would have had to stay down before she could get up to avoid a cut. In the group of the 3 black blockers is the blocker that knocked her out part of that group? If so then she would have to wait for those three to pass. If the blocker that knocked her out was behind the group of 3 black blockers she would have to wait for that blocker too making 4 black blockers that would have to pass her not to mention any of her own skaters she passed

 

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