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Author Topic: FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts  (Read 474 times)

Offline AdamSmasher

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FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts
« on: May 17, 2017, 03:55:19 am »
0
This post was made on the WFTDA Forums by the Rules committee, and can be considered binding.  It is not subject to the WFTDA NDA, and may be shared freely.

During the six months since releasing the current Rules of Flat Track Roller Derby, the Rules Committee has been paying particularly close attention to the questions and emerging practices around ceding potential cutting the track penalties. The Rules provide somewhat limited direction within only a single casebook entry:

Quote
Scenario C4.37
Red Pivot blocks White Jammer to the inside and forward, across the apex. White Jammer returns fully in bounds with both skates for a moment, and then immediately leaves the track.

Outcome: No penalty.

Rationale: White Jammer did not meaningfully gain position on anybody because they immediately left the track.

Keep in Mind: If White Jammer had not immediately left the track, White Jammer should be penalized.

Rules would now like to confirm the answers to a number of questions for skaters and officials.  We believe these answers flow from the existing rules and don't believe any of these represent changes to the Rules or Casebook; rather, these are examples of how to correctly apply the given rules.  While any and all of these may be shared publicly, there are no plans to develop correlating Casebook entries for this rules revision.  We'll evaluate how to best incorporate this information during the next revision.

1. Can a cut be ceded multiple times, or does a skater only have one opportunity to avoid the penalty?

Answer: Each time a skater attempts to re-enter the track, it is assessed for legality at that moment and without regard to prior attempts (if any).  Once a skater has successfully ceded a potential cut, that attempted re-entry is resolved and not held for future consideration.  So yes, a skater may make multiple attempts to re-enter the track, and if illegal, cede multiple times before finally re-entering legally.

2. Does a skater have to fully remove themself from the track (no part touching in-bounds), or is touching out of bounds (i.e. straddling) sufficient to be considered a cede?

Answer: The language of the casebook entry specifically calls for the skater to “leave the track” in order to successfully cede a potential cut, therefore, they must completely leave the track with no part of their skates or body touching within the track boundary.

3. If the opposing skaters' advantage is lost before the cutting skater is able to cede, are they still required to return to out of bounds to reset?

Answer: Once a skater illegally re-enters the track (i.e. cuts), they are in an illegal position that can only be rectified by immediately leaving the track.  It is impossible to completely reset that illegal gain in advantage while they are still on the track, and other skaters subsequently changing position on the track does not reconcile the cutting skaters’ illegal re-entry.  Therefore, yes, the cutting skater is required to immediately leave the track, even if they no longer hold a positional advantage in relation to other skaters.

4. A Lead Jammer re-enters the track illegally in front of an opponent.  May they call off the jam?

Answer: Ceding the cut and calling off the jam are two different and independent actions.  The Jammer is compelled to leave the track else they will receive a penalty.  If they are able to also call off the jam while doing so, no penalty is warranted.

5. What if a jam ends before a cutting skater has an opportunity to leave the track.

Answer: If a skater does not have an opportunity to cede, for example because the jam ends before they're able to react to their cut or take any action, no penalty is warranted.

6. Can a Jammer score on opponents passed in bounds but after cutting?  (Example: White Jammer is blocked across the apex, passing one Red Blocker while out of bounds; the momentum of the block forces the White Jammer past an additional two Red Blockers after re-entering the track.  Does White Jammer score on those two Red Blockers passed while the White Jammer was in-bounds and before they were able to cede the cut?)

Answer: No. By illegally re-entering the track, the Jammer has put themself into an illegal position which can only be resolved by leaving the track (or being penalized).  Jammers can not earn passes on opponents while in an illegal position, so no points should be awarded or passes earned toward lead jammer.

7.  Does it matter if a skater intentionally re-enters the track illegally, or can they only cede if they were forced into an accidental cut?

Answer: It does not matter if the re-entry was deliberate, forced, or accidental.  Any time a skater is liable for a cutting penalty, they have the opportunity to immediately cede the advantage.

8.  If a skater commits another illegal action worthy of a penalty before they cede, should they be penalized for the cut, the other action, or both?

Answer: It depends.  If the skater commits the second illegal action before having an opportunity to cede, then being penalized removes their opportunity to cede, and they should only be given a penalty for the second action.  If however, the skater has an opportunity to take an action, and rather than ceding, they commit another foul, then both the cut penalty and the second penalty are appropriate.  Lastly, if the second foul happens while the skater is attempting to cede, then they've fulfilled that obligation and only the second penalty is warranted.

9.  Can a skater who illegally re-enters the track after serving a penalty also cede that re-entry?

Answer: Yes. While Casebook entry 4.37 uses gaining illegal position in the aftermath of a block as the basis for the example, the entry should be applied to any violation of 4.2.2 Gaining Position, which includes returning from the penalty box.
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Offline MolotovLatte

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Re: FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 09:02:29 pm »
-2
I am surprised by the answer to question 2. The Glossary defines Straddling as Out of Bounds except where otherwise noted, and 4.2.2 does not note a distinction. This would change the way I call a common situation: White Blocker initiates a block on Red Jammer near the front of the pack, forcing Red Jammer fully out of bounds, White Blocker skates counterclockwise to the rear of the engagement zone, Red Jammer skates clockwise out of bounds but adopts a straddling position while their hips are still in front of White Blocker's hips, Red Jammer returns fully in bounds once their hips are fully behind White Blocker's hips. I have been considering the straddling position to be out of bounds, so the Red Jammer re-enters the track without illegally gaining superior position by putting both feet in bounds once they are fully behind White Blocker. The way I read the answer to question 2, if the Red Jammer adopts a straddling position while their hips are in front of White Blocker's, they must go fully out of bounds again in order to re-enter the track behind White Blocker.

Offline llama of death

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Re: FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 09:11:40 pm »
0
Is this published anywhere on the WFTDA sites?

I have a league or two in our area that refuses to accept anything they don't see black and white in the rules or on an official WFTDA publication, causing friction with any ref that uses such info.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 09:28:44 pm »
+1
I am surprised by the answer to question 2. The Glossary defines Straddling as Out of Bounds except where otherwise noted, and 4.2.2 does not note a distinction. This would change the way I call a common situation: White Blocker initiates a block on Red Jammer near the front of the pack, forcing Red Jammer fully out of bounds, White Blocker skates counterclockwise to the rear of the engagement zone, Red Jammer skates clockwise out of bounds but adopts a straddling position while their hips are still in front of White Blocker's hips, Red Jammer returns fully in bounds once their hips are fully behind White Blocker's hips. I have been considering the straddling position to be out of bounds, so the Red Jammer re-enters the track without illegally gaining superior position by putting both feet in bounds once they are fully behind White Blocker. The way I read the answer to question 2, if the Red Jammer adopts a straddling position while their hips are in front of White Blocker's, they must go fully out of bounds again in order to re-enter the track behind White Blocker.

You would still call this the same way. Cutting itself hasn't been altered by the new rules, there's just an opportunity now to "undo" the cut without a penalty. In your scenario, the cut never happened, so there's never a need to cede.

The FAQ is about ceding specifically, and to cede a Skater must fully exit the track (which is different than being OOB/straddling).
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: FAQ from WFTDA Rules Committee on Ceding Cuts
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 09:42:07 pm »
+3
Is this published anywhere on the WFTDA sites?

I have a league or two in our area that refuses to accept anything they don't see black and white in the rules or on an official WFTDA publication, causing friction with any ref that uses such info.

This is not published anywhere on the WFTDA site.  It is nonetheless as close to "gospel" as you can get, as it is an official opinion of the WFTDA Rules committee.  This IS the definitive interpretation going forward, and any league that refuses to accept it is going to be sorely disappointed when they get in front of refs who are properly informed.
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