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Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
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Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by Vanilla VICE
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Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by Vanilla VICE
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Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
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Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by Divide by Zero
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Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
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Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by General Hellativity
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Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by Bluebeard
November 08, 2017, 10:35:28 pm

Author Topic: A series of unfortunate events  (Read 841 times)

Offline Joker

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A series of unfortunate events
« on: June 25, 2017, 01:21:42 pm »
+2
In a recent game I was HR for.
It all started with a simple Star pass.
First unfortunate act, the pivot recieving the star had inadvertantly stepped to the inside of the track just before recieving the star, thus Star Pass violation on the Jammer.
Now here's were things went downhill fast.
I verbally indicated to the Pivot "you are not the jammer". She removed the cover. However, at that point she stuffed the star cover into her uniform and skated the whole way around the track to re-enter the pack at the back.
During this time the jammer had been knocked out of play (to the inside) and down, when she got up and was heading across to the outside to leave the track, ended up cutting.
At that point the Pivot had re-entered from the back and returned the star cover to the Jammer, who then ALSO put the Cover into her uniform and both skated to the box.

As you may guess an Official Time out was called to make sure we had everything sorted out as the different calls came from different refs. I (HR) made the initial call on the star pass violation, Front IPR on the "star Stash" on the pivot, the JR on the Cut on the Jammer. an OPR on the "star Stash" on the Jammer".
Needless to say it was a bit of a confusing situation to explain to the coach . Oh ya, that team called an Official Review just to find out WTF happened. lol

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2017, 09:56:31 pm »
0
That is a busy jam, is there a question to go with this scenario?
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline Joker

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 02:27:52 am »
0
What penalties would you assess?

Offline Speedy Convalesce

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 01:19:34 pm »
0
  • Star Pass Violation on the Jammer: Yes.
  • Hiding the star on the Pivot: I would not issue it, since the rationale for the rule is that Players should not be hiding their status, which she didn't do as she was not the Jammer.
  • Failure to Return on the Pivot: Yes, if the "Out of Play" warning was given soon enough. (No warning -> no penalty. If the warning was given so late that completing the lap was the faster way to return in play, I also would not penalize. Remember that Illegal return is no longer a penalty under the 2017 rules.)
  • Cutting on the Jammer: No. She was already considered not on the track for scoring purposes and only crossed the track to get to the penalty box. So she didn't meaningfully gain position.
  • Star Pass Violation on the Pivot: No. There are no restrictions as to when and where the Star may be returned to the Jammer.
  • Hiding the Star on the Jammer: Yes.

And I would let the team retain their review as officiating errors were made in regard to the situation they reviewed (and could plausibly have caused them to take the review).

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 01:43:52 pm »
+1
  • Star Pass Violation on the Jammer: Yes.
  • Hiding the star on the Pivot: I would not issue it, since the rationale for the rule is that Players should not be hiding their status, which she didn't do as she was not the Jammer.
  • Failure to Return on the Pivot: Yes, if the "Out of Play" warning was given soon enough. (No warning -> no penalty. If the warning was given so late that completing the lap was the faster way to return in play, I also would not penalize. Remember that Illegal return is no longer a penalty under the 2017 rules.)
  • Cutting on the Jammer: No. She was already considered not on the track for scoring purposes and only crossed the track to get to the penalty box. So she didn't meaningfully gain position.
  • Star Pass Violation on the Pivot: No. There are no restrictions as to when and where the Star may be returned to the Jammer.
  • Hiding the Star on the Jammer: Yes.

And I would let the team retain their review as officiating errors were made in regard to the situation they reviewed (and could plausibly have caused them to take the review).

I agree with most, but not all, of these assessments.

I would issue a penalty to the Pivot for stashing the Star. It's not just about who the current Jammer is, but the Star itself is strategic. The opposing team may be looking at getting the Pack to the Star so hiding its location by stuffing it still has game impact.

Was an Out of Play warning issued to the Pivot? (From the scenario, it seems like the only warning was "You are not the Jammer", which technically would be sufficient to inform them of their role, but you couldn't call it an Out of Play warning. (I'm agreeing with Speedy here.)

I'm also wondering if there should be an Insubordination penalty against the Jammer. There's one of three possible ways this could be the case:
1. Did she use the infield to shorten her distance to the Penalty Box? There is no "cutting" as the Jammer wasn't on the track any more for game purposes, but if she cut across the infield, then that's Insubordination.
2. If she cut THROUGH the Pack to get to the Box and in so doing interfered with the game by blocking people or otherwise affecting things, then she wasn't immediately going to the penalty box.
3. The fact that the Jammer was still there when the Pivot got back into the Pack seems to say that she didn't immediately leave the track.

So, if any of those were true, it's Insubordination.

Also, depending on how it came about, I wouldn't let the team retain their Official Review, but rather not award an Official Review in the first place. In other words, the OR never happened (which is different from retaining it). Since there was an OTO in progress anyway, I wouldn't have concluded the OTO until both teams and all officials with a need to know had a good understanding of what had just happened, what penalties were being issued, and why. So there wouldn't have been a need for an OR "just to find out WTF happened". Now, if I explained everything and after discussion they wanted to change a call, then they could call an OR to ask for that specific change to happen, but if they were signalling for an OR during our OTO, I'd just ignore that request and explain what was going on.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 01:53:30 pm »
+1
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
Other Skaters may not control the Star, and the Jammer and Pivot may not hide the Star (examples include putting it in a pocket or hiding it in a uniform).

Pivots can get a penalty for hiding the star. I'm on board with the other line items Speedy wrote.
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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Offline Speedy Convalesce

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Re: A series of unfortunate events
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 04:42:30 pm »
0
The hiding by the Pivot was the one I was least confident about. If the consensus is to issue a penalty, I'll join that.

I also agree with the potential for an insub (but not enough information in the OP to make a call) and the idea of ignoring the OR altogether, if circumstances allow that.

 

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