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Author Topic: Is it still a "star stash" if the helmet cover is mostly visible?  (Read 1758 times)

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Is it still a "star stash" if the helmet cover is mostly visible?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 03:41:49 pm »
-2
In this case the word "stuffed" would indicate the star is mostly or completly inside the jammer's jersey. There's no requirement to keep it in their hand. In fact if the jammer doesn't want to hold the star they can drop it on the track and pick it up on their next lap without any penalty. Concealing the star is what's illegal. If you're uncertain a jammer's actions qualify as "concealing", a warning between jams is an appropriate remedy.

There emphatically IS a requirement to keep it in their hand, as quoted above:

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
From 2.2.1:

The Star may only be carried by the Jammer wearing it on their helmet, or by that team’s Jammer or Pivot holding it in their grasp.

That is clearly a requirement.  The question is - does violating this requirement have impact which rises to the level of penalization?  Personally?  Meh.

No, no no. You're taking things out of context in order to infer a specific requirement by the letter of rules that aren't there. That rule refers to the beginning of the jam and how one identifies who the jammer is, whether or not they started the jam with a legal helmet cover and the fact that blockers can't run away with the star. The rules are a novel, not an enumerated list of cans and cannots.

The entire point of this rule set is to stop splitting hairs. This isn't about scouring through rules that tell you exactly what to do. In order to referee roller derby one must watch and understand roller derby, not just read the rules. The rules will never describe exactly what to do in all given situations. It works like this : Do you know who the jammer is? If yes then good. If no, find the cover. If you can't find the cover and it's not on the ground then it's probably being concealed. If you're uncertain or the refs are having moderate trouble seeing/finding the cover then issue a polite warning between jams. Problem solved. This is simply about the smooth administration of the game, we need to know who the jammer is.

Offline Triop

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Re: Is it still a "star stash" if the helmet cover is mostly visible?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 03:56:12 pm »
0
I think that we are specifically being asked to not be automatons and make a judgment call.

Now this is an interesting word choice considering . . .



Offline Triop

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Re: Is it still a "star stash" if the helmet cover is mostly visible?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 06:20:10 pm »
+2
No, no no. You're taking things out of context in order to infer a specific requirement by the letter of rules that aren't there. That rule refers to the beginning of the jam and how one identifies who the jammer is, whether or not they started the jam with a legal helmet cover and the fact that blockers can't run away with the star.

Are you sure? It doesn't mention at the start of the jam anywhere in that paragraph or sentence and if that's the case the pivot is allowed having it in their hand at the start? I think that sentence describes the legal means by which a cover can be controlled during a jam.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Is it still a "star stash" if the helmet cover is mostly visible?
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2017, 09:01:08 pm »
0

There emphatically IS a requirement to keep it in their hand, as quoted above:

WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
From 2.2.1:

The Star may only be carried by the Jammer wearing it on their helmet, or by that team’s Jammer or Pivot holding it in their grasp.

That is clearly a requirement.  The question is - does violating this requirement have impact which rises to the level of penalization?  Personally?  Meh.

No, no no. You're taking things out of context in order to infer a specific requirement by the letter of rules that aren't there. That rule refers to the beginning of the jam and how one identifies who the jammer is, whether or not they started the jam with a legal helmet cover and the fact that blockers can't run away with the star. The rules are a novel, not an enumerated list of cans and cannots.

This is a really hard case to make when the rules include words like "may only". That is a pretty clearly enumerated "can". You can make the argument that we can chose not to penalize a violation of a rule because it has no impact.  But it makes no sense whatsoever to say that something which is written down word for word in the rulebook isn't actually there.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 09:03:41 pm by AdamSmasher »
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