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Author Topic: Is this an expulsion-level action?  (Read 2234 times)

Offline Axis of Stevil

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Is this an expulsion-level action?
« on: September 19, 2017, 01:33:07 pm »
Please don't post this link to social media.  I'm posting it here for educational purposes only and will deactivate the link if this winds up on Facebook.

In a recent game this action happened...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnm6QE7Ue24&feature=youtu.be

... resulting in a recommendation from an OPR (whose view was pretty much the same as the camera's) to expel the blocker for making forcible contact to an official that was reasonably avoidable.

Do you agree or disagree this was an action?  See the second "Keep in Mind" of C4.71 for the relevant rule on the subject.
6.1.3.5.1.2.3 - The referee who quotes a rule with the most digits is declared the winner.

Offline Ria

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 01:49:13 pm »
For what it's worth, I am the one being "tripped" (for lack of a better term) in the video, so I have some takeaways for myself:
  • Make sure to be more aware of coming up on the back of the pack.
  • My arm form is atrocious, I gotta fix that.
  • I'm a dingus.

I have my own thoughts on this (very on the fence at the moment!) but I don't want to lead the conversation.
Ria Culpa
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Head of Officiating, Lehigh Valley Roller Derby
Documentation Committee Head, Men's Roller Derby Association
Disclaimer: Commentary is my own and not of my respective affiliated entities.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 05:37:26 pm »
My opinion, this is not even close to an expulsion worthy.

There are two reasons for this:

1) The blocker was playing derby. She was making a reasonable attempt to block a jammer that was coming through. That attempt was not successful, which caused her to fall into the infield. The way this would have been avoidable on the part of the blocker would have been to actively not play the game.

2) This was avoidable contact:

Make sure to be more aware of coming up on the back of the pack.

You said it yourself. Not to pick on you, but to expand on the point. As jammer referee, there should be anticipation of blocks against your jammer. There isn't a lot of time when these things happen, but with properly anticipating these kinds of misses, they are definitely avoidable.

Pro Tip: If you anticipate a skater may slide into your skates and you can't completely dodge, lift your foot closest to the skater. This creates a little bit of extra room before contact is made (which might cause you to avoid contact completely) and sets you up for recovery. The foot that is still down is there to be hit, the foot that is up is there to fall forward onto. If you do this, you can have a skater slide right through your feet and recover easily.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

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I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Divide by Zero

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 05:38:18 pm »
My feeling is no expulsion. The skater tried to execute a block and missed. They weren't going in for some crazy out of control hit either.

Offline Ria

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 06:03:17 pm »
You said it yourself. Not to pick on you, but to expand on the point. As jammer referee, there should be anticipation of blocks against your jammer. There isn't a lot of time when these things happen, but with properly anticipating these kinds of misses, they are definitely avoidable.

To be fair, though (and to add some personal context), I have no problem getting hit as a JR. That happens constantly--that's just the game. The whole "whoops, to knee" is not something I would've generally anticipated*. IIRC, I remember seeing her come in, anticipated an "up" hit (which would've been fine), but then she ducked out of my periphery (down) and then I was on the ground. I didn't even see what was going on and recused myself from the discussion afterwards.

Edit: * I will in the future--but that wasn't really the tenor of the game at that point. I had been contacted "up" a few times that game. I consider, generally, most contact to be "oops"-related so. *shrug, smile*
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 06:05:00 pm by Ria »
Ria Culpa
Referee/NSO/Announcer
Head of Officiating, Lehigh Valley Roller Derby
Documentation Committee Head, Men's Roller Derby Association
Disclaimer: Commentary is my own and not of my respective affiliated entities.

Offline Triop

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 07:11:38 pm »
The only time I've ever seen expulsions for contact to any skating official is when people are going to and from the box, or during a draw back and the skater isn't paying attention enough so they skate in to a ref. Pretty much any time it's part of a play (as in the case here) I've always just considered it part of derby.

Plus, the audience loves seeing a ref getting taken out.

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: Is this an expulsion-level action?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 09:08:06 pm »
"Avoidable" to me only applies once the person becomes fully OOB. I can imagine softer hits that would be expulsions, but I don't think this is one because the time from going fully OOB to contact is less than 1 second, which factoring in reaction time, seems unavoidable, and like others were saying, what they do on the track is "playing the game".

When I think of avoidable from the skaters perspective, I imagine a skater traveling 20 feet OOB and not making an effort to change their speed and trajectory before contacting an official. Even if they weren't looking where they were going.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 09:10:56 pm by Vanilla VICE »
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
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