Menu

ZH Classifieds
ZH Files
ZH Staff
WFTDA 12/1/2014 Rules
WFTDA 3/1/2014 Rules

Donate

Please Support Zebra Huddle!

Recent Posts

Low Down Throw Down 2018 - Augusta, GA April 13-15 by Damn Yankee
November 17, 2017, 09:35:51 pm

Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
November 14, 2017, 06:51:30 am

Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by Vanilla VICE
November 13, 2017, 10:04:40 pm

Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by Vanilla VICE
November 13, 2017, 10:01:54 pm

Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
November 13, 2017, 07:46:26 pm

Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
November 13, 2017, 01:02:04 pm

Re: Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by Divide by Zero
November 13, 2017, 07:18:19 am

Rules 2017 and old 2.4.2.2 "lost illegibility" by watzé
November 12, 2017, 08:39:57 pm

Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by General Hellativity
November 10, 2017, 05:31:10 pm

Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack by Bluebeard
November 08, 2017, 10:35:28 pm

Author Topic: Star Pass Destroys the Pack  (Read 251 times)

Offline General Hellativity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ithaca League of Women Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Star Pass Destroys the Pack
« on: November 05, 2017, 07:36:30 pm »
0
This is not something that I saw happen this weekend, but the question may have been *inspired* by something that happened.

Gold Jammer is held up by a Purple blocker wall about 15 feet ahead of the pack. Gold Pivot skates forward from the front of the pack into an essentially bridging position, at which point, she receives an otherwise legal star pass from Gold Jammer. (see diagram)

The star pass, if legal, creates a split pack.

Question: Legal Pass, or Illegal Pass?

In favor of "Illegal Pass,"
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
4.2.1... if a Skater’s illegal action destroys the Pack, or if a Skater’s actions prevent or delay the reformation of a Pack, that Skater should be penalized...
This is the new rule under which Pack Destructions are now called. It doesn't specify skating away from a pack or anything, only any illegal action that occurs that destroys the pack. Passing the Star to destroy the pack *seems* to be of the same level as "illegal" as skating to destroy it. After all, Gold Jammer is taking an action that clearly will cause her and everyone else to adopt an unblockable position. ALSO, destroying the pack at this precise moment is a huge game advantage to Gold team, since their Pivot-Turned-Jammer will certainly get through immediately.

In favor of "Legal Pass,"  Passing the Star is derby, and possibly should be treated like blocking: if it happens to destroy the pack as part of normal gameplay, no penalty should be assessed; it is not an *illegal* action that destroys the pack. But *skating* isn't, on its own, an illegal action either. ALSO: If the action is illegal, then no jammer status is transferred by the action and the pack *isn't* destroyed, so it cannot be illegal. IT'S GODEL'S INCOMPLETENESS JAMMER

Maybe I just answered my own question.

Thoughts?

Offline llama of death

  • Referee
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 303
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • Referee
  • League Affiliation: Rollling Hills Derby Dames, WheatWhackers (JRDA)
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 04:42:03 pm »
+1
In favor of "Illegal Pass,"
WFTDA Rule/Clarification:
4.2.1... if a Skater’s illegal action destroys the Pack, or if a Skater’s actions prevent or delay the reformation of a Pack, that Skater should be penalized...
Precisely, if an ILLEGAL action causes a no pack. The starpass was legal therefore no penalty should be issued for the legal destruction of the pack.

In favor of "Legal Pass,"  Passing the Star is derby, and possibly should be treated like blocking: if it happens to destroy the pack as part of normal gameplay, no penalty should be assessed; it is not an *illegal* action that destroys the pack. But *skating* isn't, on its own, an illegal action either.
Yep, you got it.
I play devils advocate a lot, it is always because I desire a complete understanding of the rule/scenario. I do make changes to my reffing often as a direct result of discussions resulting in a consensus. Particularly if it is contrary to my previous understanding.

Offline Bluebeard

  • Referee
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Stats Sheet: 0
  • League Affiliation: Independent
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 10:35:28 pm »
0
What Llama said. 

Also, it would be really tough to get that just right so that the star pass would destroy the pack.  The pivot would have to set up their bridge at 9.5 feet then the jammer would have to come back only to 11 feet and pass the star.  Otherwise, either the pivot destroyed the pack before the star pass, or the jammer turned blocker takes over the bridge from the pivot turned jammer.

Offline General Hellativity

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Stats Sheet: 1
  • League Affiliation: Ithaca League of Women Rollers
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 1
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 05:31:10 pm »
0
What Llama said. 

Also, it would be really tough to get that just right so that the star pass would destroy the pack.

Actually, it did just about happen in P2J7 of Texas vs Minnesota this week. I initially thought that's what the penalty might have been called for. But then I realized it was an OOP Star Pass just before the No Pack was actually called.

Offline Vanilla VICE

  • Referee
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 673
  • Stats Sheet: 6
  • SC&L
  • League Affiliation: Muscogee Roller Girls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Star Pass Destroys the Pack
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 10:04:40 pm »
+1
Wow this is such a good play to think about. I'm on board with the other answers, but thank you for sharing that one.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 10:12:28 pm by Vanilla VICE »
Muscogee Roller Girls: Columbus, GA
FlatTrackStats Mod

 

Featured Product

 

Zebra Huddle Head Referee Bout Booklet

 

Featured Classifieds


ZH Files

How to Score a Point in Roller Derby
Rating: *****
Downloads: 1851
Views: 2935
Filesize: 327.61KB
Date: January 17, 2017, 04:21:03 am
Comments (0)
By: AdamSmasher
June 2013 Ruleset situational questions
Rating: *****
Downloads: 1662
Views: 3076
Filesize: 29.71KB
Date: February 07, 2014, 04:57:32 pm
Comments (2)
By: Crash Test Ref
Rules Q&A and Publications for 6/15/13 Document
Rating: (None)
Downloads: 1717
Views: 3506
Filesize: 26.27KB
Date: August 02, 2013, 04:10:40 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman
Rules Q&A and Publications for 1/1/13 Document (4/24/13 Updates)
Rating: *****
Downloads: 2560
Views: 3631
Filesize: 28.07KB
Date: April 25, 2013, 05:45:34 pm
Comments (0)
By: Shaun Ketterman

Powered by EzPortal