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Re: Failure to Reform by AdamSmasher
July 17, 2018, 03:51:00 am

Re: How to deal with players that are also referees? by Major Wood
July 16, 2018, 10:11:22 pm

Re: Failure to Reform by Garrotin Keillor
July 16, 2018, 06:39:09 am

Re: How to deal with players that are also referees? by Garrotin Keillor
July 16, 2018, 06:27:44 am

Re: How to deal with players that are also referees? by Vanilla VICE
July 02, 2018, 08:16:54 pm

Re: Ceding Position by Vanilla VICE
July 02, 2018, 08:10:05 pm

Re: Failure to Reform by heylexi1
July 01, 2018, 09:45:33 pm

Re: Failure to Reform by AdamSmasher
July 01, 2018, 06:27:44 pm

Re: Failure to Reform by Destructor
June 30, 2018, 07:58:35 pm

Re: Failure to Reform by heylexi1
June 30, 2018, 07:26:55 pm

Author Topic: When to Call the Destruction  (Read 843 times)

Offline HELLvis

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When to Call the Destruction
« on: January 05, 2018, 05:46:51 am »
0
A few related questions;
 
 If a blocker clearly causes a no pack and I call "NO PACK" should I give the verbal cue for the destruction penalty before or after I announce that the pack is reformed. 
 Also, what if she is the one most responsible for reforming the pack?  If she's already penalized with a destruction how can she be the one to reform?  Is it because she is only officially penalized when I announce it?  Should she not count in reforming the pack?  If she does count is it possible to give her a destruction and a failure to reform?
 I hope this is clear.

Thanks
HELLvis

Offline Major Wood

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Re: When to Call the Destruction
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 07:17:01 pm »
+1
Lots of questions here. I'll answer each individually, then give a more direct answer:

If a blocker clearly causes a no pack and I call "NO PACK" should I give the verbal cue for the destruction penalty before or after I announce that the pack is reformed. 

The priority should be on declaring the reformation of the pack, but it's not that simple.

Also, what if she is the one most responsible for reforming the pack?

Technically, she can reform the pack until she has been penalized. Again, not that simple.

If she's already penalized with a destruction how can she be the one to reform? Is it because she is only officially penalized when I announce it?

You answered your own question here.

Should she not count in reforming the pack?

If she does count is it possible to give her a destruction and a failure to reform?

I suppose it would be, but I think that doing so would indicate a failure on the part of the inside pack referees.

Now, to explain how this should work:
There are two inside pack referees, and they should be working as a team. Both should be declaring no pack at the same time. If not at the same time, the second inside pack referee should declare very quickly after the first. At that point in time, both inside pack referees are watching to see when the pack reforms and who is responsible if it is not. During this time, if one of the inside pack referees saw a skater as being responsible for destroying the pack, they can immediately issue that penalty. Because the other inside pack referee was already watching for reformation, there should not be a delay in declaring the pack to be reformed.

We have 7 referees for a reason. Sometimes that reason builds in redundancy to allow us to do things like this with minimal impact to the game.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Rollergirls Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline HELLvis

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Re: When to Call the Destruction
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 09:22:27 pm »
0
Awesome.  Thank you for responding.  This is very helpful.

And Hello from The Queen City Roller Girls in Buffalo!
HELLvis

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: When to Call the Destruction
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 10:13:06 pm »
+1
Just to expand a little.  One very common situation is that one skater will be clearly responsible for destroying the pack, but it's also clear that the pack will reform relatively quickly without her involvement.  For example, a skater quickly darts backwards, breaking the pack, but on the "NO PACK" call, everyone in back floors it.

In that case, I will nearly always give the "Pack is here" signal *before* issuing the destruction, just like Major Wood said.   

Which means that what the skaters hear is: "PACK IS HERE" followed by "DESTROYING THE PACK."  Newer skaters will often get confused at this point - How could I destroy the pack if the pack was here?  This is something that I end up explaining quite a bit in lower level play - that the destruction had already occurred before the reformation, but that signalling the one was higher on the priority list than the other.
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