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Author Topic: How to deal with players that are also referees?  (Read 2122 times)

Offline nueces

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How to deal with players that are also referees?
« on: June 08, 2018, 09:03:06 am »
How to deal with players that are also referees and when they play act as they were officiating from inside of the track?

A few weeks ago, a player that was also a referee in the same tournament, was playing and during the game in a lot of occasions he was doing hand signals or pointing to others players when he believe they where committing penalties. In some occasions he was right, in other I don't see the penalty or agree with their opinion.

What I did was warn to the player that I was only making calls for what I could see and if it was the same that he was continuously pointing with their hand signals from inside the track, that would lead to understand for opositive players and spectators, that I was following their directives,  undermining my authority in the game, and because that being unrespectfull with the referees.
After that, a few jams later the game ends.

My question is how to deal with this kind of situations? was my warning proper? or I should just ignore this kind of players? and if not, and if after the warning the player continues with their behavior should I issue a misconduct?

Offline Bluebeard

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Re: How to deal with players that are also referees?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 09:18:48 pm »
I recently heard of a recent similar, though much less extreme, situation.  In that situation, the skater was issued an Insubordination penalty.  I do not know that that was necessarily warranted in that situation.  But,  It sounds like it might be in yours.

I would, however, try to head that off before it gets to that point.  After about the second occurrence, I would talk about it within the crew and let HR talk to the skater and/or their captain to explain that that is not acceptable behavior for the reasons you stated and warn that future occurrences could be penalized.

That will probably resolve situation.  If the warning does not do the trick, the first penalty should help the player understand that they should segregate their behaviors based on what shirt they are wearing.

Offline Vanilla VICE

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Re: How to deal with players that are also referees?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2018, 08:16:54 pm »
Type A Stuff: I think the first step is asking them to stop nicely if they are constantly signaling and contesting everything. Let them know you are calling the penalties you see and to use their OR if they feel like an error has been made.

Type B Stuff: If they were yelling warnings that require other skaters to react: "no pack" "out of play" etc, then I would be much more stern because I wouldn't want skaters to react to their warnings.

If they keep doing A items after a warning, I think you may be able to control the game with insub penalties but should use warnings first.

If they keep doing B items after a warning, I think you may be able to have the expulsion talk, while this is a last resort, you can't keep having someone yell warnings that other skaters would react to.
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Offline Garrotin Keillor

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Re: How to deal with players that are also referees?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2018, 06:27:44 am »
I'd say let it go - and it shouldn't be an issue to start with.

Based on what you said - and only what you said - in my experience that seems to be pretty common even in skaters who aren't referees.  In terms of an opponent seeing him, hand signals but no verbal cues are meaningless, and unless his jersey had stripes on it, an opponent isn't going to look at his hand signal and take a penalty. I've even had hand signals and vocalizations from skaters but it still doesn't affect play because skaters don't really pay attention unless there's a whistle and their color and their number and their penalty.

Unless the hand signals are accompanied by official-sounding calls (number, color, and offense - not just the offense) or actually affecting gameplay (the aforementioned "no pack" call), I'd let it go.  The time they're spending throwing up hand signals is time they're not actually focused on what they should be doing, and that's to their team's overall detriment.  Let the team handle the skater who's spending so much time throwing up hand signals that he couldn't get back to his triangle in time.

And to be honest, throwing up hand signals - even when asked not to do so - wouldn't even be close to misconduct or insubordination in my book (although obviously in my book they wouldn't even be asked not to).  This is not, in my opinion, undermining authority or going against governing principles of the sport or misleading officials (unless you've got another ref solely going by his signals, in which case you need to talk with that ref!).

We need to think about what the role we play is, and what is reasonable to be asking of skaters in the first place.  Are we there to ensure derby is played safely and properly, and to leave skaters thinking we're fair judges, or are we there to make derby what we want it to be, and to leave skaters thinking we're setting them up for failure/penalties because we have our own unspoken ruleset?  Is glaring at a ref going to get a warning or misconduct?  Frowning?  Not smiling?  It's a slippery slope to start agreeing to issue misconduct/insub for things that have zero effect on gameplay but we just "don't like".

Offline Major Wood

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Re: How to deal with players that are also referees?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 10:11:22 pm »
I agree with that.

I have seen skaters (very few of the ones I'm thinking of have ever officiated) put up hand signals, stating that a certain penalty should be called. Some of them have done that several times in every jam. I've sometimes found it annoying, but I have never seen anything that I would feel comfortable issuing a warning for, let alone a penalty.
I have more important things to focus on.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

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I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.


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