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Re: Call-offs and ceding by AdamSmasher
August 24, 2018, 06:10:08 pm

Author Topic: Call-offs and ceding  (Read 176 times)

Offline Garrotin Keillor

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Call-offs and ceding
« on: August 24, 2018, 12:35:51 pm »
0
Purple jammer is lead.  She legally passes one yellow blocker and is then blocked across the apex back onto the track.  Still traveling from the momentum of the block she attempts to call off the jam.

The jam was not called off and the jammer was issued a track cut.

This was just a practice scrimmage so it's not a big deal, but afterwards the skater was told that she needed to cede the cut and re-establish position before being able to call the jam and I found that odd.

I want to be very clear on the sequence and wording, the cut was not issued until the jammer tried to call, and the issuing ref explained the LJ would have had to cede and then call off the jam (indicating she'd still had the ability to cede, but there was a period of time calling the jam was not allowed).

1) I had never heard of this, and ceding is still somewhat new, so I wanted to get your opinions.  Is there really a time a LJ is not allowed to call off a jam?  The previous rulesets have said LJ can call it "at any time", but these rulesets, with their more specific wording, were also before ceding.

2) Does a jammer truly have to fully cede a cut before calling off a jam?  If not, how close to ceding it should they be?  If they are still being carried by their momentum?  If they are just starting back to cede (e.g. heading OOB but not yet there)?  If they've only just stopped but haven't started to head back yet?  (Certainly if they have stopped and take a step in derby direction, and then try to call it, I would say that's a cut, costing them LJ status)

3) Following up on that, assuming a jammer in such a circumstance (hit across the track, calling during block momentum) is successfully calling the jam but at some point during the whistles begins to travel CCW under her own force - would this then be considered a track cut, or should this be let go as, like casebook Scenario C4.2.1.H, it's not actually gaining an advantage?

Thanks in advance!

Offline Stray Taco

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Re: Call-offs and ceding
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2018, 02:48:58 pm »
+2
As long as the Jammer is in the act of ceding and not trying to do anything else, they can call the jam.

If the Jammer was to stop and attempt to call the Jam instead of ceding, then I'd issue a cut, but if the Jammer attempts to call the Jam while ceding, they are still within the rules requiring them to immediately cede.

There's nothing in the rules saying a Jammer can't call the Jam until some other event has happened (except when the Star is removed), and this is no exception.
Mike "Stray Taco" Straw

I know some things, but there's a lot more I don't know.

Offline AdamSmasher

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Re: Call-offs and ceding
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2018, 06:10:08 pm »
+1
Taco's got it: The short version is - the very next action the jammer takes must be attempting to get off the track and cede. As long as they're doing that, then they can do other things.  If they do anything else besides ceding, they've cut. They can do other things in addition to ceding and that's fine.

Here's a link to the Rules Commitee's clarifications around ceding which have never been officially published, but are nonetheless binding:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Je201TymIIJpvWly8nacmlTOj4ZEEAjZaL4qtbhRBwc/edit?usp=sharing
I'm better at remembering "Smasher" is me than "Adam."
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Offline Garrotin Keillor

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Re: Call-offs and ceding
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2018, 12:10:40 am »
0
Thanks Adam and Taco - that's exactly what I thought, but the other ref was insistent (and more seasoned) so I thought I was just missing something.

 

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