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Author Topic: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds  (Read 25062 times)

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 03:53:03 pm »
She may attempt to repass as many times as she wants, so long as she does not reach 20 feet ahead of the pack.

What if she drops waaaay behind the pack (>20ft)- she's still on the same pass so she can try to pass them legally again, right? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question... I'm new at this, want to make sure
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Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 03:54:05 pm »
She may attempt to repass as many times as she wants, so long as she does not reach 20 feet ahead of the pack.

What if she drops waaaay behind the pack (>20ft)- she's still on the same pass so she can try to pass them legally again, right? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question... I'm new at this, want to make sure

Yep.
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Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 03:54:55 pm »
Thanks everyone! I'm done steering this thread in the wrong direction. Sorry about that.
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 04:02:41 pm »
Fair Play JF, I got my answer, so you can talk about whatever you want now.

It was one of those things I knew the text of the rules, but didn't really consider the ramifications until I found myself awarding a point during the scenario I described above.

Offline Riff Reff

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 04:33:55 pm »
well thanks for bringing it up.. I wasn't aware of that... tending to read over legally and in-bounds... thinking.. yeah shure...
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2009, 05:13:17 pm »
well thanks for bringing it up.. I wasn't aware of that... tending to read over legally and in-bounds... thinking.. yeah shure...
Yeah, it was one of those moments of clarity where previously I'd just thought "Well if they pass someone out of bounds it's going to be a Cutting Track, so of course they don't get the point", and only recently noticed a scenario where that logic didn't apply.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2009, 01:39:10 am »
While we've sorted that one out, its interesting to note: If the Jammer is blocked out of bounds by the opposing Jammer prior to reaching the Engagement Zone of the pack, even though legally blocked outside, the outside Jammer is no longer eligible for lead jammer status.
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Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2009, 02:28:50 am »
While we've sorted that one out, its interesting to note: If the Jammer is blocked out of bounds by the opposing Jammer prior to reaching the Engagement Zone of the pack, even though legally blocked outside, the outside Jammer is no longer eligible for lead jammer status.


She's also ineligible if she's illegally blocked OOB by the other jammer. 'Course, you'd then give a major to the blocking jammer.

~j.z.
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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2009, 04:04:18 am »
And thereby guaranteeing a 2 minute "No lead jammer" jam.

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Offline Crash Test Ref

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2009, 12:08:44 pm »
She may attempt to repass as many times as she wants, so long as she does not reach 20 feet ahead of the pack.

Quick clarification for Jam refs:

"LEAD JAMMER" is called immediately when she passes the foremost in-play Blocker within the engagement zone.  This includes passing her own in-play teammates.

"NOT LEAD JAMMER" is not called until she gets 20' AHEAD of the pack, as this ensures that she still has the opportunity to drop back and re-pass if she wants to. 

(unless called "not lead" becasue the other J got lead, or when called due to going OOB prior to entering the engagement zone, of course)
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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2009, 08:40:24 am »
Quick clarification for Jam refs:

"LEAD JAMMER" is called immediately when she passes the foremost in-play Blocker within the engagement zone.  This includes passing her own in-play teammates.

"NOT LEAD JAMMER" is not called until she gets 20' AHEAD of the pack, as this ensures that she still has the opportunity to drop back and re-pass if she wants to. 

(unless called "not lead" becasue the other J got lead, or when called due to going OOB prior to entering the engagement zone, of course)
This is one of the moments where I think good ref to ref communication really helps. If you have two potential lead jammers passing the foremost pack skater at the same time, and yours isn't lead (due to SOOB before EZ or illegal pass), rather than waiting to call the "Not Lead" until she exits the engagement zone, just mention to the other Jam Ref "mine's not lead yet". Or if roles are reversed, ask the question.

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2009, 09:20:35 am »
we got to talk about THAT on saturday!!!
I am so looking forward to reffing with you guys...
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Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2009, 01:01:41 am »
Okay, I understand what has been said. (not sure if this needs to be a new post or not).
Jammer blocked "oob" by opposing blocker.
Opposing blocker slows down or stops trying to get the jammer to cut, for a foul.  "(6.2.10) the skater may not return in bounds in front of the skater who blocked her out of bounds, unless...etc"
Question? Once the pack distances the blocker putting her(the blocker) oop, is this still in effect? She also intentionally distanced more then 20' (6.2.11.5)
In (7.5.1) points are earned when passing opposing skater knocked down or oop.
So behind oop and in the box "ghost" points are given once the first in play opposing blocker is passed.
And (7.5.3.1) jammer awarded points for player ahead of the pack and oop.
The "ghost" points for the oop blockers out front are given when the jam has been called off(if scored at least one point). (if all oop "no pack", then points are as passed)
The way I see this is that once the blocker, that knocked the jammer out, is behind and oop; there should be no penalty. And once she passes the first in play blocker she is given either a "ghost point" or credit(if initial pass) for the pass of the opposing blocker that blocked her oob, then went oop.(7.4.3)
        Then on the flip side. Once the blocker is behind enough to be oop. She is not legally passive blocking(in play) (5.1.1.2)
And should receive a penalty (4.3.3.1) She would be passively blocking the jammer.
(6.2.11) Should be a major for a measurably consequence.
Does this make sense or am I completely wrong?
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2009, 01:10:22 am »
It makes sense, but you are completely wrong. I have seen a lot of discussion about this recently.

Quote

There is nothing in the rules saying that you can legally cut around an OOP skater. The out-of-play skater is subject to OOP penalties.

Quote
6.2.10 A skater that is in-bounds need not yield the right of way to an out-of-bounds skater. Skaters that are out-of-bounds must find an entrance back into the pack that does not require in-bounds skaters to move.

Because of this rule, it is not blocking at all. It is not considered a "block" if there is no contact.


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Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2009, 01:19:53 am »
There is nothing in the rules saying that you can legally cut around an OOP skater. The out-of-play skater is subject to OOP penalties.

Quote
6.2.10 A skater that is in-bounds need not yield the right of way to an out-of-bounds skater. Skaters that are out-of-bounds must find an entrance back into the pack that does not require in-bounds skaters to move.

Because of this rule, it is not blocking at all. It is not considered a "block" if there is no contact.



[/quote]
5.1.1.2 Passive blocking, skating in front of an opposing skater to to impede her movement on the track, may only be preformed by skaters who are concidered in play. positional blocking need not include contact.
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