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Author Topic: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds  (Read 27103 times)

Offline Johnny Zebra

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2009, 01:24:36 am »
Jammer blocked "oob" by opposing blocker.
Opposing blocker slows down or stops trying to get the jammer to cut, for a foul.  "(6.2.10) the skater may not return in bounds in front of the skater who blocked her out of bounds, unless...etc"
Question? Once the pack distances the blocker putting her(the blocker) oop, is this still in effect? She also intentionally distanced more then 20' (6.2.11.5)
...
The way I see this is that once the blocker, that knocked the jammer out, is behind and oop; there should be no penalty. And once she passes the first in play blocker she is given either a "ghost point" or credit(if initial pass) for the pass of the opposing blocker that blocked her oob, then went oop.(7.4.3)
        Then on the flip side. Once the blocker is behind enough to be oop. She is not legally passive blocking(in play) (5.1.1.2)
And should receive a penalty (4.3.3.1) She would be passively blocking the jammer.
(6.2.11) Should be a major for a measurably consequence.
Does this make sense or am I completely wrong?

Hey there, Coach T . . .

A lot of people out there think that "cutting" around an OOP player should NOT be grounds for a penalty. I'm one of them.

But rules as written do not specify OOP players under the no impact section of cutting track:

No Impact/No Penalty
6.2.10.1 A skater cutting around a downed or out-of-bounds player is not bettering her position.  


So unless the rules change, we call cuts around OOP skaters as penalties. If it's multiple OOP players, major. If the OOP player happens to be the foremost opposing blocker: major.

It is possible that this rule will change in a future ruleset, but for now, it should be called as above.

~j.z.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 02:35:33 am by Johnny Zebra »
===============
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2009, 01:24:47 am »
She has to pass ALL opposing blockers legally and in-bounds. If she passed any of them out of bounds, it does not count.
Without passing that one blocker legally and in bounds, she cannot become lead jammer.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2009, 01:33:25 am by mick »
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Offline Jonathan Lee

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2009, 01:28:08 am »
Question? Once the pack distances the blocker putting her(the blocker) oop, is this still in effect?

Yes

The way I see this is that once the blocker, that knocked the jammer out, is behind and oop; there should be no penalty. And once she passes the first in play blocker she is given either a "ghost point" or credit(if initial pass) for the pass of the opposing blocker that blocked her oob, then went oop.(7.4.3)

No and no, per the rules Wood cited. And for the ghost point, ghost points are only given for those situations listed under 7.4

And should receive a penalty (4.3.3.1) She would be passively blocking the jammer.
(6.2.11) Should be a major for a measurably consequence.
Does this make sense or am I completely wrong?

Like Wood said, it's not passive blocking if you are in the way of someone coming from out of bounds. Due to that rules and the glossary.

From the glossary:
Quote
Bay Area Derby Girls, head referee :: WFTDA Certified Referee, Level 3

Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2009, 01:32:21 am »
Okay, this is what I am hearing.
If I block a jammer oob, then completely stop. That jammer has to skate in the opposit direction to enter the track behind me. And ontop of that I am not concidered blocking, wich also means I could skate in the opposit direction to cause her to try and pass me to enter from behind?
The reason I ask this is I have seen jammers blocked oob then that blocker stops. so is that legal?
Will argue with a ref for food.
I do not argue just to argue, I argue to learn.

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2009, 01:35:41 am »
Okay, this is what I am hearing.
If I block a jammer oob, then completely stop. That jammer has to skate in the opposit direction to enter the track behind me. And ontop of that I am not concidered blocking, wich also means I could skate in the opposit direction to cause her to try and pass me to enter from behind?
no
positional blocking is still blocking
you cant skate clockwise to block


Quote
The reason I ask this is I have seen jammers blocked oob then that blocker stops. so is that legal?
yes - stopping is legal
blocker does not need to make it easy for jammer to enter
but blocker must follow the blocking rules when positionally blocking
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
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Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2009, 01:36:46 am »
I was just told it wasn't blocking?
Will argue with a ref for food.
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2009, 01:40:14 am »
Okay, this is what I am hearing.
If I block a jammer oob, then completely stop. That jammer has to skate in the opposit direction to enter the track behind me. And ontop of that I am not concidered blocking, wich also means I could skate in the opposit direction to cause her to try and pass me to enter from behind?

If the jammer is still out of bounds, it is legal for you to skate clockwise, as far as blocks go. You would be further distancing yourself from the pack, and very quickly receive a major OOP.

The reason I ask this is I have seen jammers blocked oob then that blocker stops. so is that legal?

Absolutely
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2009, 01:41:38 am »
I was just told it wasn't blocking?

If you are blocking the path for the jammer to re-enter (meaning she is out-of-bounds), you are not blocking as long as there is no contact.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
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I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2009, 01:42:47 am »
I was just told it wasn't blocking?


as wood pointed out earlier - the rules say that a player doesnt need to get out of the way of a returning skater

however, that's not the scenario you described - you described actively skating in the opposite direction to get in her way
thats quite different to simply not getting out of her way

from the glossary
Blocking -- Blocking need not include contact.  Impeding the movement of an opposing skater by hitting her or positioning yourself in her path.
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
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Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2009, 01:45:03 am »
Okay, this is what I am hearing.
If I block a jammer oob, then completely stop. That jammer has to skate in the opposit direction to enter the track behind me. And ontop of that I am not concidered blocking, wich also means I could skate in the opposit direction to cause her to try and pass me to enter from behind?

If the jammer is still out of bounds, it is legal for you to skate clockwise, as far as blocks go. You would be further distancing yourself from the pack, and very quickly receive a major OOP.

yes indeedy
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2009, 01:48:25 am »
I honestly think that once the blocker goes oop, they need to yield(neither actively or passively block) the jammer. And the jammer can enter the track either behind or in front of the oop blocker, with no cutting the track fouls. That should be in the refs discretion, and should call it as such.
Will argue with a ref for food.
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Offline Major Wood

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2009, 01:54:18 am »
I honestly think that once the blocker goes oop, they need to yield(neither actively or passively block) the jammer. And the jammer can enter the track either behind or in front of the oop blocker, with no cutting the track fouls. That should be in the refs discretion, and should call it as such.

As Johnny Zebra pointed out, this rule is not liked by a lot of people. It is the rule though, and is the way it should be called.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

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Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2009, 02:39:00 am »
Okay, this is what I am hearing.
If I block a jammer oob, then completely stop. That jammer has to skate in the opposit direction to enter the track behind me. And ontop of that I am not concidered blocking, wich also means I could skate in the opposit direction to cause her to try and pass me to enter from behind?
no
positional blocking is still blocking
you cant skate clockwise to block

I disagree with mick and agree with Coach T, and in fact believe it to be an interesting strategy. If a skater blocks an opponent OOB, and then turns around and skates clockwise then they are just preventing the opponent from reentering the track. This would work until the pack laps around, because of course the skater would then risk getting an OOP penalty. This isn't positional blocking at all.

5.1.1.2 Passive blocking (a.k.a Positional, Frontal, or Body Blocking), skating in front of an opposing skater to impede her movement on the track, may only be performed by skaters who are considered in play, as defined in Section 4.3.2. Positional blocking need not include contact.

In Coach T's example the skater would be skating beside their opponent, not in front of.

Offline Coach T

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2009, 02:47:58 am »
By in front of, you mean the natural direction of the track?
Or is in front of mean the direction that the oob jammer must take to re-enter?
Since the jammer has to skate in the opposite direction, is it the path being blocked or the direction?
Will argue with a ref for food.
I do not argue just to argue, I argue to learn.

Offline L8R SK8R

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Re: Jammer passing while Out of Bounds
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2009, 02:51:17 am »
By in front of, you mean the natural direction of the track?
Or is in front of mean the direction that the oob jammer must take to re-enter?
Since the jammer has to skate in the opposite direction, is it the path being blocked or the direction?

I'm going to guess in front of the player being blocked, since there is no definition.

 

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