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Author Topic: Mistakes and other problems  (Read 138036 times)

Offline HIM-roid

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  • League Affiliation: Mississippi Rollergirls
  • Referee Certification Level: Level 2
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #315 on: December 17, 2010, 05:24:20 am »
I was quite often the only ref for scrimmages, it's not easy.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I think I have a better attendance than most of our skaters and as a newbie ref, the girls were vey understanding about my inexperience and tolerated my very limited calls at first, but i must say, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I have gotten milestones of experience being the only ref and when another ref shows up, I have them stand back and tell me what i am missing or could be doing better. No matter how good you are or think you are, we are all human and make mistakes and there is always room to improve as long as you keep an open mind.
HIM-roid
WFTDA Apprentice Officials Area Coordinator
Head of Officiating
Mississippi Rollergirls
WFTDA-Certified Referee, Level 2
WFTDA Officials Apprentice Program Area Coordinator

Offline BatFasterson

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #316 on: December 17, 2010, 08:08:06 pm »
I recently worked a bout (as HR) where some of the Ref crew were fairly new (not that I'd consider myself to be particularly experieinced either mind you).

At times I found myself focussing on the Refs and what they were doing - and unfortunately this meant I missed some things that a rear inside pack ref should have seen.

I had a similar incident, only in my case I was turned to report a penalty to an NSO. That habit came out of working dozens of bouts where NSOs aren't all that well trained and need the extra attention -- but it's nevertheless a poor habit.
The incident helped to further drive home the importance of 1) making sure home NSOs are well-trained and don't need hand-holding, and 2) trusting them to do their job once the bout starts.
Star City Roller Girls, Roanoke, VA
New River Valley Roller Girls, Blacksburg, VA
Opinions expressed here are my own.

Offline reflmao

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #317 on: January 03, 2011, 12:36:28 am »
The Head Ref discussion over that-a-ways ---->> reminded me of a big oops.

I'm guest HR for a nearby league.   We've done intros and the national anthem is playing when I look over and wonder to myself, "hmm, where do their EMTs generally setup?"   Of course the answer didn't matter as they hadn't arrived yet...

I grabbed the captains immediately and while the announcers stalled we figured out what to.   We found a home team skater in the audience who had emergency medical experience as a nurse and both teams agreed to go on.   The EMTs arrived about 10 minutes in.

It's now on my checklist of things to look for and during the captains meeting I point out where the EMTs sit.
RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
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  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #318 on: January 30, 2011, 08:24:32 pm »
Incident this past bout involved 2 Bench staff being joined after 1/2 Time by the Coach. Upon noticing this I brought it to the HR's attention, spoke with another ref and verified it was a Minor Penalty for too many support staff. ( My first error, Its a Major) To which I reported to the penalty operator the Minor penalty and assigned it to the Captain. (My second error, its assigned to the Pivot, unless the pivot isn't on the track then it gets assigned to the Captain.)

Sadly, 10 minutes later into the bout, the 3rd person is back in the track area (not the In Play area, but the OOB track area where the Refs skate) along with the Coach/Bench Manager. I inform the Head Ref, who tells me to give another penalty to the Captain. This causes the Captain who was at 6 3/4's  to reach 7 trips to the box and foul out.

The team argued that the 3rd wasn't 'in the Team area' nor directing to the track but was a 'fan' yelling in excitement at that point.  Irregardless the penalty stood, then it was argued the Home team had too many people in their area. I brought the issue to the HR who conferred with the Home Team.

1 Coach, 1 Assitant Coach, 1 Rostered Skater who was not wearing gear ( but was on the Roster and the Penalty board) and 1 'Door security' person who was guarding the door since we play in an unventilated Gymnasium.

My lessons learned, even though you 'think' you know a rule but aren't 100% certain, verify the exact penalty and appropriate punishment for such.


Madness Tolls
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Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline ttjustice

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  • And Justice for All!
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Girls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #319 on: February 14, 2011, 06:52:42 pm »
Here is one that occurred this weekend at scrimmage.

White jammer gets stuck in the pack, removed the star and passes it to white pivot.  White pivot gets blocked out of bounds, comes to a complete stop, puts on the jammer cover then skates back into the pack.  She quickly finds and opening and breaks through the pack and is quickly out of the front of the engagement zone.  The whole event is over in under 5 seconds. Every referee (including me) that saw this happen forgets that "outside the engagement zone" also includes the out of bounds on the inside and outside of the track and declares the star pass illegal <smacks forehead with hand>.

Its only after the scrimmage is over and I replay the scene in my mind that I realize we all bungled it.

So for my own benefit and review:

Yes it is legal for the pivot to put the jammer cover on outside the engagement zone, only the star pass itself must take place in it.

Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #320 on: May 14, 2011, 12:48:31 am »
I was HR/JR and things were going swimmingly.  We had a skater pileup right as my jammer entered the rear of the pack, and the skater on the bottom wasn't getting up.  I called the jam for injury, and promptly forgot how many points my jammer had scored.  I think she was on her initial pass, and I signaled 0 points to the scorekeeper, who confirmed my score.  If the team had challenged it, though, I would have awarded points. :/
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline Noah Tall

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #321 on: May 22, 2011, 02:19:19 pm »
Hmm, this is not good that I'm posting here twice in a row.  Maybe it means I'm growing as a ref? :/

Anywho, Team A was taking a knee prior to the jam start, to get the no pack call.  The call was given, but the skaters were going before the jammer start whistle.  I remember clearly the discussion that they must wait for the whistle to go, even if there is a no pack, or it's a false start.  Of course, that rule is for jammers.  *sigh*  I issued a whole bunch of IP false starts on the blockers for going at their whistle.  The captain came up to me at halftime asking about these calls.  OMG!  I was so embarrassed.  I apologized, of course, but man!  I just don't even know what happened there.
WFTDA Ref Rep
WFTDA AP Area Coordinator
Arkansas

"We may not be skilled, but at least we're impartial!"

Offline ttjustice

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  • Posts: 540
  • Stats Sheet: 18
  • And Justice for All!
  • League Affiliation: Ohio Roller Girls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Level 2
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #322 on: May 23, 2011, 04:19:16 pm »
I think its called too many things to keep straight on the start of a jam!  Just wait until you encounter the "one team starts behind the jammer line" thing in person for the first time.

Don't feel bad, at a bout earlier this year I was IPR rear and we had a late poodle, so I skated over and started yelling at the penalty track "Does she have 4?  Does she have 4??!" while everyone, including the poodling skater looked at me like I was crazy.
Timothy T. Justice
Ohio Roller Girls Head of Officiating 2011-2013
Retired Level 3 Skating Official
WFTDA Rules Theory Clerk

Offline ChrisSteel Balls

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #323 on: June 04, 2011, 03:14:06 am »
As a new ref i'm the first to admit i'm learning & making mistakes...but this week it was taken to another level!

We had our first public bout and i made sure the helmet cam was on. Its a great tool for girls to see themselves and know what to work on...But this time I could see my own work :/
When I watched the footage afterwards I could hear every call I made and saw each time it wasn't quite CTT, when it was a penalty and I hesitated, every back block i called as an elbow DOH and when i called along with the ref who was closest to the penalty!

I'm suitably embarrassed but yet grateful I can get such an honest learning tool!

Offline LinzSlay

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #324 on: June 05, 2011, 12:57:22 am »
I have watched the wrong jammer for a couple of passes before, it sucks...
Head Referee RVRG Fort Smith AR

Offline Grenade Whistler

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #325 on: June 05, 2011, 07:10:44 pm »
Last night I made TWO huge and BASIC mistakes.

First, I awarded my jammer lead after she passed an opposing skater out of bounds.  ::) It was an oh shizz moment, so fast that I lost focus.

Then, I awarded two points at the jam end for the ladies in the penalty box, before she passed an opposing blocker.

Not my proudest moments, but I own them.  :-\

Sometimes, your brain is running faster than the action on the track, and anticipating what will happen can be detrimental. I had the two points for the blockers in the box behind my back as she entered the engagement zone, and the jam was called. Knee jerk reaction, put those fingers up. I retracted the points when I realized they were in error, but STILL.....huge fail on the most basic of duties.

Offline JimmyRage

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #326 on: June 07, 2011, 04:12:11 am »
Jam Ref'd a scrimmage a few weeks, Front IPR said "split pack", my brain thought "Out Of Play" (...don't ask), awarded Lead Jammer. Der.

But I think this would go both ways - "split pack" is deprecated, folks ;)
Jimmy Rage, #471
Level 0 Certified Ref
Head Ref, Long Island Roller Rebels

I play it too.

Offline mick hawkins

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  • They're covers people. Helmet COVERS!
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #327 on: July 01, 2011, 06:55:37 am »
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 07:12:29 am by mick hawkins »
Sun State Roller Girls (WFTDA Apprentice League)
Brisbane, Australia

Offline Darkjester

  • Has Too Much Damn Time Member
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  • Posts: 3067
  • Stats Sheet: 39
  • "When in doubt, RTFM"
  • League Affiliation: Beach Brawl SK8R Dolls
  • Referee Certification Level: Not Certified
  • NSO Certification Level: Not Certified
Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #328 on: July 02, 2011, 05:21:32 am »
That's why I abhorredly HATE that play..

There really is no 'winning' in how you handle that.

Yes, the Red team is technically REALLY FAR ahead of the Pivot line, but they are also physically 30 feet behind the blue team.

This is a 'no win' situation which really makes me consider Jerry Seltzer and some other 'old timers' opinions that there should no longer be two separate whistles.. 1 whistle starts them all.

Until such time though as WFTDA decides to change anything, I'll just do my best during these crazy situations not to overthink it, or underthink it and make the right calls (or non calls)
Madness Tolls
69¢
Beach Brawl Sk8R Dolls
Fort Walton Beach FL

Offline Celtic Raider

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Re: Mistakes and other problems
« Reply #329 on: July 03, 2011, 02:20:20 am »
OK here is an issue I had in one of the two games I head reffed on Friday.

Last jam of the first period ends and the Jam ref for Black team comes up to me to ask me a question.  Since it was an exhibition bout, with shortened periods and shortened half time, I was in a rush to get the rookie NSO team and ref team off the track for a mid game review/overview etc.

In the locker room, I get the ref to explain the situation too me.  FYI, he's a new Jammer Ref too.  He asked me if he should have awarded points in the last jam because his Jammer had cut one blocker but passed the three other blockers legally and he didn't award any points.  I told him that she should have gotten the three for passing the others, but not the one illegally passed blocker since she didn't repass.

Before the start of the second half, I called both teams captains into the middle, explained the situation, told them that I was awarding the three points to Black.  Since it was exhibition, the Red cocap (also coach) said he was ok with it but said that he thought the head ref could only make adjustments on points for the last three Jams, and in a non-exhibition game would have protested my decision.  My reply was that since it was the last jam of the first half, that I could make that adjustment since it was a ref error.

What would the correct process have been for that scenario?

 

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