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Author Topic: Injury and Jammerless Jam (split from: (Jammers helmet cover removed by pivot)  (Read 9080 times)

Offline mick hawkins

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(BW your first post says jam was called due to injury... sorry if i took that too literally)

if she'd removed herself from play - then yeah it's a jammerless jam

if she's off the track, down and not getting up -- then i guess the ref's got to decide is she injured or not?
might she come back or not? call the jam for an injured skater or not?

if she simply moves to OOB and stays there for no apparent reason (which ive seen a player do out of frustration)... is it then a jammerless jam?

i guess the question is - how long do we wait?

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Offline Ballistic Whistle

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(BW your first post says jam was called due to injury... sorry if i took that too literally)
Just noticed that. Sorry mate, my bad.

Calling a jam for injury is one of those tricky things for me. If a skater is injured, but is well off the track and not a danger to any of the other skaters or herself, then I let the jam continue. I've been stung way too many times after calling a jam for injury and having the skater hop back up and skate back to their bench as if nothing happened.

If they're still on the track then it's a whole different story. As soon as it looks like that skater being there is a danger to themselves or other skaters then I'll call it for injury. I guess it's a matter of knowing what the difference between a downed skater and an injured skater looks like...something I've yet to master. I try and communicate with the skater to get a bead on how they're doing as well, but more often that not if they just want the jam over then they won't say anything to me.

In the scenario described where we called a jammerless jam, I used the same rationale as if they were on the track before calling a jammerless jam. She was off the track and not a danger, so I had the luxury of allowing a little more time to assess if she was genuinely injured. Sure enough, she skated back to her bench. Must have been winded...

Offline Matt the Knife

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Calling a jam for injury is one of those tricky things for me. If a skater is injured, but is well off the track and not a danger to any of the other skaters or herself, then I let the jam continue.

I've had that a few times in scrimmage practices, girls ask me why I let the jam carry on - to which my reply is always that the injured party was off the track, and so there was no reason to call off the jam. Somehow I feel like the bad guy for a few seconds after that...
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Offline howie~swerve

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if she'd removed herself from play - then yeah it's a jammerless jam

if she's off the track, down and not getting up -- then i guess the ref's got to decide is she injured or not?
might she come back or not? call the jam for an injured skater or not?

if she simply moves to OOB and stays there for no apparent reason (which ive seen a player do out of frustration)... is it then a jammerless jam?

i guess the question is - how long do we wait?

These are really good questions and it looks like discussion has quieted down on them...

I mean, I think Chug was right the first time.  Clarifications are emphatic that we don't whistle a jammerless jam dead until both jammers are in the penalty box, sitting, right?  Well, if one jammer is off the track, injured, while the other is in the box -- this does not allow us to invoke 6.4.5 to stop the jam.

So, when do we whistle the jam dead?  If she were a blocker off the track, play would continue.  But since she's a jammer, injured, making no motion to rejoin... what allows us to stop the jam?  And if the answer is "discretion," what allows us to invoke the jammerless jam rules to structure the ensuing jam, since the last jam wasn't whistled dead under 6.4.5?





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Offline Darkjester

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If the Jammer is in the box we are clear.

If the Jammer is off the track due to obvious injury. I'm blowing four whistles because the jammer may need medical attention. I wouldn't invoke a Jammerless Jam necessarily in that situation but rather the whistle off for injury. Which would in effect make the jammer (If ok and cleared to return) have to miss 3 consecutive jams due to the call off.  If the jammer pulls herself off for another reason ( boot is untied, etc.,) I'm more inclined to keep the jam going in case she can just tie it back quickly or what not, if its not going to be fixed quickly you can use Refs discretion to call off the jam ( equipment malfunction, etc.,) and go through Jammerless Jam procedures.
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Offline Johnny Zebra

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if she'd removed herself from play - then yeah it's a jammerless jam

if she's off the track, down and not getting up -- then i guess the ref's got to decide is she injured or not?
might she come back or not? call the jam for an injured skater or not?

if she simply moves to OOB and stays there for no apparent reason (which ive seen a player do out of frustration)... is it then a jammerless jam?

i guess the question is - how long do we wait?
Clarifications are emphatic that we don't whistle a jammerless jam dead until both jammers are in the penalty box, sitting, right?  Well, if one jammer is off the track, injured, while the other is in the box -- this does not allow us to invoke 6.4.5 to stop the jam.

So, when do we whistle the jam dead?  If she were a blocker off the track, play would continue.  But since she's a jammer, injured, making no motion to rejoin... what allows us to stop the jam?  And if the answer is "discretion," what allows us to invoke the jammerless jam rules to structure the ensuing jam, since the last jam wasn't whistled dead under 6.4.5?



Here's how I've seen this operate over and over again in practice and in discussions: You whistle a jammerless jam anytime  both jammers are not on the track. That's why the rule contains the sentence "This rule applies to all circumstances when both Jammers are missing from the track."

Both jammers in the seat are required for a "normal" jammerless jam to be whistled (i.e. both jammers in the box). But in other circumstances where you've got a jammer in the box and another one exits the track, 6.4.5. is also invoked at the moment it's clear that the jam no longer has any jammers on the track. Given the confusion of the above discussion, I would not be surprised to see this process codified a little more clearly in a future ruleset.

~j.z.
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