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Author Topic: Pivot line (do's and dont's)  (Read 4687 times)

All-Nate-Long

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Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« on: January 19, 2010, 07:39:14 am »
This is prior to the jam whistle

a.  The Red pivot prior to the jam lines up on the line facing the inner rink.  She then begins to slide her foot back off the pivot line and at the same time her other leg hugs the track boundary, she continues to slide back causing the green3blocker to move back as well......... She is now then i several inches off the line and she is now pushing her butt into the  green pivot behind her( just to remind you ,the pivot is facing the inner track so her back is turned away from the other pivot)  and the green 3 blocker behind her has moved back about 2feet. As soon as the whistle blows she draws the foul.... and it looked like....... she got hit prior to any forward momentum or stepping actually occurred.

I was inside pac ref, head ref was behind me..

Head ref called Illegal procedures....

This is one of several techniques i have seen to draw a foul.......

How do you feel about this scenario and what is the best way to deal with it...


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Offline ExceptionHandler

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 07:48:46 am »
Draw a foul on another player? or herself?

If the former;

[rule]   6.12   ILLEGAL PROCEDURES
Technical infractions that give the offending team an advantage but do not directly impact a specific opponent.[/rule]

I wouldnt think IP would be the appropriate call, but have no idea what the appropriate call would be.
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All-Nate-Long

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 08:10:18 am »
The foul was called on the opposing pivot.............

Dude that is a seriously awesome Pac-man ghost font..................

Offline SeerSin

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 12:48:29 pm »
A blocker who lines up in front of the Pivot would receive a Minor Illegal Procedure for False Starting. As long as the Pivot is on the line.

6.12.4.2.3   lines up in front of a Pivot Blocker who is on the Pivot line

Offline ExceptionHandler

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 02:20:32 pm »
A blocker who lines up in front of the Pivot would receive a Minor Illegal Procedure for False Starting. As long as the Pivot is on the line.

6.12.4.2.3   lines up in front of a Pivot Blocker who is on the Pivot line

My understanding is that both are pivots, and are both on the line. 

My crude MS paint drawing:


The arrow indicates the way the red pivot is facing.
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 03:42:58 pm »
Unfortunately the scenario isn't quite clear..

From what I'm reading the Red Pivot, originally on the line with a green blocker behind her. Began 'pushing' backwards into the green blocker prior to the start whistle forcing Green Blocker 2 feet backwards?

Then an Illegal Procedure penalty was called, but you didn't say on who or for what?

And at some point there was 'hitting' without someone skating..

And something about drawing a foul..


There are many possible fouls that could have occurred in the given scenario.

Red Pivot, if they had kept their wheel or toestop ON the line, and pushed their booty back 'behind' green blocker, could have drawn a minor ( major if no yielding) IP for the Green Blockers hips being ahead of hers ( while Red was on the line.  If Red is NOT on the line there is no penalty for green's hips being more forward as long as Green Blocker isn't on the line).



Regardless of who is pivot/blocker, jockeying for position prior to the start whistle COULD be called for a whistle for blocking out of play.

Regardless of standing still, if the skater who initiated the block took a step/rolled, she is in motion and legal to initiate a block as long as the start whistle has blown.

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Offline SeerSin

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 07:31:19 pm »
Sounds like the penalty may have been for blocking without stepping or skating which some refs have been calling as Illegal Procedures. But the scenario isn't entirely clear.

All-Nate-Long

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 07:58:05 pm »
The thing is that the red pivot keeps moving back further off the line causing the blocker behind her to move back with her, The green blocker did not want to go past her.....

The red pivots ass was pressed against  the green pivots thigh.. so when the whistle blew the red pivot made it look like she got hit from behind by the pivot and the blocker behind her moved around her once the whistle was blown....

Soo i have seen this at 2 bouts now and the pivots in question play on travel teams............  

I just want everyone to look out for the same scenario because that pivot isworking around loop hole fouls....

Offline Cliquework

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 08:02:09 pm »
I wouldn't call it a "loophole" in the rules. Either she was actually hit and the call would be based on impact, or she was faking being hit and there would be no call. It's up to the sharp eyes of the ref to discern between the two. Don't be tricked into calling what they want you to, call what you see.

Drawing a foul and faking a foul differences + the term "Forces".
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:23:37 pm by Cliquework »
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Offline Darkjester

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 10:32:47 pm »
However.. They could call a OOP foul on the Green Pivot for blocking prior to the whistle with her 'back up, back up back up' pushing..

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All-Nate-Long

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 11:05:24 pm »
Totally... keep an eye out for it, I have seen this here  in ca. several times...

It is possible to draw 2 minors from one action....But a pivot who is facing toward the inner rink is a tale tell sign that they r going to try and get us to make the call..........


Offline mick hawkins

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2010, 11:20:27 pm »
Totally... keep an eye out for it, I have seen this here  in ca. several times...

It is possible to draw 2 minors from one action....But a pivot who is facing toward the inner rink is a tale tell sign that they r going to try and get us to make the call..........

one action = one penalty
... that's if it's one single action though - not a series

i wouldnt think that they are trying to get you to make a call
i tell my refs not to look at what the players think you should call (or are telling you to call) - just call a penalty if you see an illegal action

skaters will often line up on the inside line facing the infield - it makes it more difficult for an opponent to block them as soon as the whistle blows to start the jam... so dont read too much into it

if they start backing up and forcing opponents to change position... well thats another thing altogether
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 11:25:26 pm by mick »
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Offline Cliquework

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Re: Pivot line (do's and dont's)
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2010, 11:25:53 pm »
.
However.. They could call a OOP foul on the Green Pivot for blocking prior to the whistle with her 'back up,
 back up back up' pushing..

Yep. Segue to This Thread

All of the cross-referencing in these forums definitely illustrates how many rules are in play and how much one must keep track of at any given time. Why we divide and conquer with our roles and responsibilities
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