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Author Topic: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?  (Read 17824 times)

Offline Poobah

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 09:02:26 pm »
0
Something to keep in mind: What the rules suggest are all that's needed is not necessarily ALL that is actually needed.

The rules indicate what's needed to keep the bout functioning, not what's needed to actually sanction a game.

For example: Bouts in the three 20s format were still allowed by the rules in the WFTDA 3.0 (May 2008) and 3.1 (August 2008) rule sets. They remained legal per the rules until 4.0 (April 2009). You could not sanction them as of a bylaws change that was made around Spring 2008. What this led to was that all WFTDA leagues (hopefully) stopped setting up bouts that had the three period format, while many non-WFTDA leagues that were using WFTDA's latest rule sets kept on playing the older format.

Funny side story. MANY MANY leagues did not ever notice that anything other than three 20s was even allowed in the rules. When the two 30s format was adopted for 2007 Nationals I remember people posting that the rules didn't allow for that (when it had been legal since WFTDA 2.1), only to get corrected by other people that it was indeed legal. The lesson is that a lot of people (even me) sometimes base their assumptions of what the rules are based upon what they are used to seeing.

Here's another example. The rules (up until the latest May 2010 edition) allowed for a single scorekeeper. In theory, a single person sitting outside the center of the track could probably have watched both referees' hand signals and recorded (on a non-standard sheet*) the points scored by each jammer. That's was good enough to make a bout functional, but probably not good enough in reality.

What was actually happening that made this not really useful as a standard operating procedure? WFTDA's standardized stats sheets from 2006-2008 actually had scorekeepers not just recording jammers, lead jammer status, points scored per jam and the totals. They also recorded the lineups for their entire team.

The standardized stats sheets that were put together in 2008 and ratified by WFTDA in 2009 had scorekeepers no longer tracking lineups (easing their workload a bit), but now they were recording jam numbers (or star passes), jammer numbers, lost leads, lead jammer, called off jams, jams called for injuries, no-pass situations, points scored per pass, ghost points (by type, including HOW the fifth point in a pass was scored), points scored per pass, total points scored per jam and total score for the team.

The rules do not seem to get changed based upon the needs or wants of the NSO/stats community. Until something we do (or don't do) impacts the outcome of high-visibility bouts, don't expect the rules to reflect what's needed or what is currently the actual standards of the NSO/stats community. People in WFTDA leagues might want to check with their rep about why rule 9.1.5.1 was approved. It probably wasn't because "People who do stats started questioning the sanity of allowing of single scorekeepers back in 2007 or earlier."

Anyways, I'm happy for that rule and the one banning non-skating outside pack refs as removing a couple of "vestigial tail" rules.
Grand Poobah
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Roc City Roller Derby
ex-Sin City Stat Pack

Offline WheelSmith

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2010, 05:40:39 pm »
0
Ok, so what is the difference between stats and NSO?  In my mind they are the same thing.  Our head of stats compiles the data at the end of the bout, and fills out the stuff for the IBRF.  He also trains the NSOs, helps wrangle penalties, consults with the scorekeepers, scoreboard operator and penalty box to make sure things are running smoothly.  He's also the main point of contact between the NSOs and refs.

Penalty Wrangling is an NSO thing that can be evaluated right? So your head of stats can get evaluated for the penalty wrangling?

Or maybe I read that wrong?
-Wheel Smith, the Ref Prince of Bel Air

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 06:38:10 pm »
0
Ok, so what is the difference between stats and NSO?  In my mind they are the same thing.  Our head of stats compiles the data at the end of the bout, and fills out the stuff for the IBRF.  He also trains the NSOs, helps wrangle penalties, consults with the scorekeepers, scoreboard operator and penalty box to make sure things are running smoothly.  He's also the main point of contact between the NSOs and refs.

Penalty Wrangling is an NSO thing that can be evaluated right? So your head of stats can get evaluated for the penalty wrangling?

Or maybe I read that wrong?

From this same thread:
Penalty Tracker
Penalty Box Official/Timer
Whiteboard (both inside and out)
Penalty Wrangler/Runner/Chaser
Jam Timer
Score Keeper
Scoreboard Operator
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline Major Wood

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 07:00:44 pm »
0
Right. It is the position they are working during that bout. It does not matter who is in that position. It could be your head of stats, your head NSO, head ref, a skater or someone you pulled in off the street. It's purely based on what they are doing in that specific bout.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

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I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline JoeXCore

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2010, 12:06:59 pm »
0
WFTDA recently seems to have decided that lineup trackers are NSOs...


Any change on the original list given? Have lineup trackers been added to the list? Is there still nowhere this list can be found on the WFTDA web site?
Black n Bluegrass Roller Girls - head referee
MRDA Recognized Refree

Offline Jess of the D'ErbyKills

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2010, 08:14:04 pm »
0
I have two questions that I can't figure out from the WFTDA site.

1) Is it better to get evaluations for a range of NSO positions (that are eligible for evaluation), or is it okay to have 3 for one positon?

2) If you were NSO-ing a tournament, could you get an evaluation for each game, or would it count as one for the tournament? Would it depend on how many Head Refs you worked with?

Cheers
Jess of the D'Erbykills

Offline Major Wood

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 08:29:26 pm »
0
I have two questions that I can't figure out from the WFTDA site.

1) Is it better to get evaluations for a range of NSO positions (that are eligible for evaluation), or is it okay to have 3 for one positon?

2) If you were NSO-ing a tournament, could you get an evaluation for each game, or would it count as one for the tournament? Would it depend on how many Head Refs you worked with?

Cheers
Jess of the D'Erbykills

1) I can't speak to which is "better", but it is certainly ok to have multiple evals for the same position. Most people specialize in one position. There are a few level 1 certified officials whom I have only ever seen work one specific position. This, of course, doesn't mean they can't and don't work other positions, just that they specialize.

2)If it were a big 5 tournament, you typically get one for the tournament. Otherwise, you are best off asking the tournament head referee, who should be setting a procedure for asking for evaluations.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Rollergirls Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

Offline Jess of the D'ErbyKills

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2010, 10:04:40 pm »
0
Excellent, thank you.

Offline JoeXCore

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2011, 04:34:50 am »
0
Quote
The currently recognized Non Skating Official positions which are evaluable are:

Penalty Tracker
Penalty Wrangler
Inside White Board Operator
Jam Timer
Outside White Board Operator
Penalty Box Timer
Penalty Box Manager
Scoreboard Operator
Scorekeeper
Line Up Tracker
Black n Bluegrass Roller Girls - head referee
MRDA Recognized Refree

Offline Brian Robinson

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2012, 12:13:41 am »
0
As stated on the NSO Eval Form, both team captains (or designated "league representatives") may evaluate an NSO in one of these positions.
 
Just to confirm, because I've never been asked to give an NSO evaluation before, may the head referee of a bout give an NSO evaluation in these positions as well?*

(Meaning up to 3 evaluation cards per WFTDA Regulation/Sanctioned bout)
Black Rose Rollers
WFTDA Officials Apprentice Area Coordinator

Offline Two Bit Score

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2012, 03:31:41 am »
0
Just to confirm, because I've never been asked to give an NSO evaluation before, may the head referee of a bout give an NSO evaluation in these positions as well?*

(Meaning up to 3 evaluation cards per WFTDA Regulation/Sanctioned bout)
Yes, this is how I understand it (and how I have received NSO evals in the past).  Also, I have seen some leagues have the head NSO issue an eval for NSOs seeking evals.  I'm not sure if that falls under a head ref eval, or if the home team is giving the head NSO authority to issue the eval.   My home league doesn't, and I've never thought to ask a league that does it that way.
Any night when I can pull up the covers and say "I am a better ref right now than I was when I woke up," is a good day.
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Offline Yvel Saint Laurent

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2012, 03:30:36 pm »
0
I've received evaluations as an NSO from my NSO crew head, on behalf of the Head Ref before, in addition to those from the competing teams.
Official at Rainy City Roller Derby, and Knights of Oldham Roller Derby (Manchester, UK).
MRDA recognized official. WFTDA Lvl 2 NSO.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2012, 03:39:50 pm »
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Yes, the head referee and the head NSO may send in NSO evaluations.

Offline reflmao

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Re: What NSO positions can recieve evalulations toward certification?
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2012, 03:57:39 pm »
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Yes, the head referee and the head NSO may send in NSO evaluations.
 

I thought that was an 'or' not an 'and'.
RCRD, Rochester, NY

Offline FNZebra

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Re: What NSO positions can receive evaluations toward certification?
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2012, 05:04:44 pm »
0
Yes, the head referee and the head NSO may send in NSO evaluations.
 
I thought that was an 'or' not an 'and'.

In practice, I have seen it as usually being an 'or'. The head NSO is typically in a better "position" to see evidence of NSO (non-)performance, particularly if they are the one filling in the stats book from the in-bout paperwork.

Your mileage may vary, depending on the maturity of the league and the individuals involved.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:06:51 pm by FNZebra »
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

 

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