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Author Topic: Skating clockwise to block  (Read 13375 times)

Offline Lolemite

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2010, 04:04:38 pm »
Sorry, the initiator is facing the wrong way and stopped, the stopped player shoulder checks a player skating towards her.  Is this a penalty?

Offline The Gorram Reaver

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2010, 04:46:56 pm »
Sorry, the initiator is facing the wrong way and stopped, the stopped player shoulder checks a player skating towards her.  Is this a penalty?
Yes, assuming they are stopped and not just in the proccess of stopping.  If they have not completely stopped it would be a legal block, assuming the contact zones were legal.
The direction the skater is facing is irrelevant.  Whether or not she is fully stopped, or is stepping/skating in a clockwise direction, is the important point.
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Offline SpiderPirate

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2010, 04:58:43 pm »
The direction the skater is facing is irrelevant.  Whether or not she is fully stopped, or is stepping/skating in a clockwise direction, is the important point.

Exactly, this has seemed to confuse a lot of refs on this call, but hopefully was clarified in the new rule set to ease confusion here.
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Offline Lolemite

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2010, 10:13:01 pm »
This has just confused me more, how can the block be legal if she is in motion and facing the wrong way?  Also, is the block illegal if she is stopped completely?  Sorry but this just doesn't seem right to me.  The stopped player hitting a moving player head on is not sasfe at all.

Offline Jiminey Stick-It

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2010, 10:37:23 pm »
A skater can be skating backward in the counterclockwise direction and legally hit other skaters. 

[rule]5.1.3
A skater who is in play and stepping and/or skating (i.e. not down or at a standstill) in the counter-clockwise direction may block or engage an opposing player at any time during the jam after their start whistle has blown.[/rule]

Note that the rule only references direction of travel, not the direction that the skater is facing.

A stopped player can not hit a any other player, but can be hit. 

Offline ExceptionHandler

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2010, 10:52:05 pm »
Its a bit clearer in the latest ruleset, with it being called;

[rule]6.9
DIRECTION OF GAMEPLAY PENALTIES[/rule]
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Offline SpiderPirate

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2010, 11:01:13 pm »
This has just confused me more, how can the block be legal if she is in motion and facing the wrong way?  Also, is the block illegal if she is stopped completely?  Sorry but this just doesn't seem right to me.  The stopped player hitting a moving player head on is not sasfe at all.

There is no "wrong way" to face... only a wrong direction to skate.  Look at the legal contact zones in your rule set and you'll see the entire front of the torso is a completely open area to impact and block with. (you can skate facing backwards as long as you're going CCW and check someone to the chest with your chest etc, but you can't skate the opposite direction "CW" and check someone).

You must be moving (stepping or skating) in order to block as well, standing still and blocking is illegal, but a person may be blocked who is standing still. (A moving person can hit someone standing still, but not vice versa)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 06:05:56 am by SpiderPirate »
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark."

� Michelangelo Buonarroti

Offline Lolemite

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2010, 02:49:55 pm »
Thank you, it is now understood.

Offline Darkjester

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2010, 11:01:27 pm »
It was interesting as I was watching a bout on DNN (subtle plug) one of the teams tactics was to try and catch a goat, but they would skate in reverse to do such. For some reason one of two things would occur.

There would be contact initiated by the clockwise skating, but no call. OR, the 'goat' would also skate backwards as well.

One of the announcers posted in the text that the team was skating in reverse, however then stepping forward to make contact, but several of the instances I saw there wasn't any forward step at all, or if there wasn't any contact it was still positional blocking as they skated in reverse and caused the opposing skaters to try and dodge around them.
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Offline J. Ref K.

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2011, 02:15:06 pm »
After multiple searches for the situation I need clarification on, I resort to rejuvenation of a thread from last year...


If a skater (A) is deliberately... facing CW, skating CW, and initiates a block on a very sturdy opposing blocker (B), forcing her off balance but not to fall, I would issue skater (A) a DOGP - Minor (6.9.12), at a minimum. 

My question is this:  If this illegal action also causes the receiving blocker to stop and regain her balance, is this a loss of "established position" and therefore required to be a DOGP - Major (6.9.15)?

My inclination is "Yes."   

It is a much more obvious loss of established position if this dubious style of blocking forces the receiving skater OOP (the rest of the pack continues skating >20' beyond Blockers A and B), down, OOB, but in the situation here, the receiving blocker had time to recover and never exceeded 20' from the rear of the pack. 

As a side-note, if I see this style of deliberate blocking technique persistently from the same skater, should I let her continue until she fouls out or discuss expulsion with the HR (7.5.2.1)?
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Offline Shaun Ketterman

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2011, 02:54:40 pm »
[rule]Official Rules Response:

Question 1:
Should relative position be judged by all skaters on the track, or only by the skaters directly involved/impacted by an engagement?

Answer 1:
Relative position should be judged only by the skaters directly involved or impacted by an engagement.

Question 2:
An illegal hit puts a player off balance. The initiator of that hit doesn't gain position on the recipient. Some other player completely uninvolved and unaffected by the engagement passes
the off-balance skater. Minor or Major?

Answer 2:
The referee must determine the impact of that hit on the recipient in order to determine if it is a major or minor; if the illegal action only causes the skater to be off balance but does not physically move/propel her or cause her to fall or go out of bounds then it would be a minor.

6.9.15 A clockwise block that forces the receiving opposing skater out of her established position. This includes forcing a skater down, out of bounds, or out of relative position.[/rule]

You judge loss of relative position only between the initiator and the reciever of a block.  In your case, the initiator didn't gain position over the player she hit, so it's a minor.  6.9.15 defines "established position" in this instance.  The reciever didn't go down, OB or lose relative position versus the initiator. 

If you see the action from the player over and over, let her continue to accrue minors.  A minor penalty doesn't become egregious and expellable just because it's repeated. 
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Offline fiona poppins

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2011, 06:07:56 pm »
I want to clarify what i just read to make sure i understand. First a clockwise block is not defined by the direction a skater is facing but the direction she is skating., and second the biggest difference between a major or minor is the impact on play . a player loses her balance but not on the floor or lose of position == a minor: player is on the floor or losses position == major . I really want to learn to do this right the first time.  now for my two questions first if the skater is litterally skating backwards and pushing another skjater out with her butt this would be a major clockwise block correct? what do you do if the skater who was impacted intentionally falls or wobbles to initiate the call?

Offline James Harper

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2011, 06:26:55 pm »
When you say backwards and blocking with her bootie...do you mean A: clockwise or B: counterclockwise (derby direction).

If the skater is skating clockwise and using their butt to block the another person down, out of bounds or cause to lose relative position...yes (in my opinion) this would be a major clockwise block.

If the skater is skating derby direction, while backwards, and uses their bootie to block another skater as long as it is a legal block..no penalty. If the skater uses a legal blocking zone into an illegal target zone.i.e. if the skater were using a bootie block (legal) while skating derby direction backwards to the back or bootie (illegal target)of another skater then, based on impact spectrum and heirarchy, she could be potentially back blocking the skater in front of her.

Make sense?
These are merely my interpretations and opinions. I am here to gain and share knowledge.

If I am mistaken or calling incorrectly I am happy to be educated.

Offline fiona poppins

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2011, 07:14:38 pm »
i think so but the skater was actually skating backwards clock wise. so it is definatly about direction of skating as oppose to the way the skater is facing then?

Offline James Harper

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Re: Skating clockwise to block
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2011, 07:20:21 pm »
i think so but the skater was actually skating backwards clock wise. so it is definatly about direction of skating as oppose to the way the skater is facing then?

Yes...also pay attention to their feet. It has to do with the direction of her skates. It is judged based on the skates being perpendicular to the track boundary. We discussed this at some length last night during our referee meeting. Imagine looking down at the pivot line. If a skater where to execute a block that ran parallel to that line...ok. If the skater was in front of the line and the skates crossed that line clockwise (even if it is a slight backwards motion) it is still illegal.  Food for thought and a lot to judge. I have been refereeing for 4 years and learn something new everytime I go to another league or skate a scrimmage.

Don't get frustrated and take your time. Unsure of a major=minor, unusure of minor= no penalty.
These are merely my interpretations and opinions. I am here to gain and share knowledge.

If I am mistaken or calling incorrectly I am happy to be educated.

 

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