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Author Topic: false start...  (Read 7924 times)

Offline Jessticular Fortitude

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Re: false start...
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 02:56:37 pm »
I'd still categorize that under coaching.
Hey look, a search function! Right up there! No on the left

Perhaps we should all spend a little more time reading and a little less time making shit up.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: false start...
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 03:14:01 pm »
Agreed, we issue the false start. Giving her an okay to proceed afterward would be coaching.

Offline Hell En Fuego

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Re: false start...
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2010, 06:53:44 pm »
Agreed. If they know the rule, they should know when to proceed.

They should be penalized according to their actions. If they're not sure, they'll find out by the call you make. Telling them when to proceed, with a nod, wave, or verbal communication is coaching IMHO.

Hell En Fuego
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Emerald City Roller Girls

All-Nate-Long

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Re: false start...
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 07:22:19 pm »
Yet ..............how many girls can actually judge that in a bout.......

I think it is a small percentage that can actually know where the pac is and where the other jammer is and......... take the rules into consideration....

It is the refs job to wave players out of the box or onto the floor in moments of utter confusion...

When a player is looking to u with her hands up in the air asking you if she was issued a penalty do u  nod your head yes or no.......?

When a player is OOP do you warn her she is out of play...........?

Do you let the pac know when they are at ten feet away and split, or do you toss the captains from both teams in the box

The line between rule enforcement and acknowledgment is a fine line that can be depicted in different scenarios...


All Nate Long




Offline Bishop

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Re: false start...
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 07:29:05 pm »
And since it was brought up, can someone give me a definition of coaching as it pertains to WFTDA roller derby that isn't an opinion?
Recommended Resources:WFTDA Rules Central, WFTDA officiating & Successful Sports Officiating
Propose rule changes at timeout.wftda.com.

Offline SeerSin

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Re: false start...
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2010, 08:02:09 pm »
That's a good question Bishop. And unfortunately I can't give you a definition of coaching that isn't an opinion. I tend to go with what's specifically in the rules and best practices. So I issue a warning for Out of Play, define the pack, declare No Pack when appropriate, direct a skater to return to her bench when necessary, etc. These are accepted practices in derby that involve general anouncements about the status of the jam, pack, or bout.
I don't answer mid-bout rules questions. If a skater goes to the box for a minor I let her(unless a ref was unclear or made a mistake), I don't tell the jammer she forgot her helmet cover, or that her toe is over the line, etc. Warning in those instances is not general information given to all, it's favoring one skater individually, and as such would fall under coaching.
It's still an opinion, and opinions of what is and is not coaching vary greatly. Hope that helps.

Offline Pat-E-Rat

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Re: false start...
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2010, 08:12:50 pm »
Another question:  Is not an arm in the air similar, if not the same, as a head nod?  I understand the OOP warning is in the actual rule set, but it seems a skater would better know that she's in the field alone rather than an inch over the line...
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Offline FNZebra

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Re: false start...
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2010, 08:21:18 pm »
Another question:  Is not an arm in the air similar, if not the same, as a head nod?  I understand the OOP warning is in the actual rule set, but it seems a skater would better know that she's in the field alone rather than an inch over the line...

OOP arm poised, ready to chop is in the rules. The head nod isn't.

The skaters want the rules this way, so far.

It's really that simple. Many skaters were being affected while chasing the jammer at the edge of the EZ, so they changed the rules so that an observant skater will know when they are about to be penalized while doing that.

If enough jammers don't realize when they have sufficiently yielded advantage, then I suspect we might see another change in the rules.
You will bout as you practice.


Cheers,

FN Zebra
Bleeding Heartland Roller Derby (WFTDA)
Bloomington, Indianer

Offline Pat-E-Rat

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Re: false start...
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2010, 08:33:51 pm »
[rule]6.5.5 Continuing to intentionally skate more than twenty (20) feet from the pack after being
warned. A penalty should be applied to each offending Blocker.[/rule]

In contrast to:

[rule]9.3.1.1 Issuing penalties takes priority over issuing warnings. A warning does not have
to be issued in order for a penalty to be given. Issuing penalties is always the
priority over issuing a warning of any sort.[/rule]

This is where I think a good portion of the confusion comes from.  Simply because one action warrants a warning when another does not.  I see what you're saying about the jammers v. blocker situation, though.
Pat-E-Rat
Head Ref
River City Rollergirls
Richmond, VA

Offline Major Wood

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Re: false start...
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2010, 11:11:22 pm »
Definition from dictionary.com:
Quote
to give instruction or advice to in the capacity of a coach; instruct

Facts:
Offering information here IS a cue to continue play, to the skater's advantage.
It is offering information to one skater.
The other jammer referee may or may not be as consistent in offering this information.
The other team may, or may not false start as frequently.

Opinion:
Until the rules say that there should be a warning in this case, I feel that this would be coaching. I also feel that it satisfies the above definition of "coaching". It is offering an unfair advantage to a team that is making mistakes.
When a skater is now in the engagement zone after being warned that she was out of play, should she be given the go-ahead to start blocking?
Some things you need to leave for the skaters to figure out. Offering this information, I feel, skews the outcome of the game.
Your friendly Zebra Huddle admin.

Nashville Roller Derby Head Ref
WFTDA Level 5 Certified Referee

I speak only of my opinions and interpretations.

 

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